Tandy Pricing Structure Change

[bikermutt07]

6 hours ago, YinTx said:

That's the first I've heard of this.  Source?

YinTx

Me too.

[Chakotay]

I'm presuming Tandy is just the distributor/rebrander.

I ordered a small bottle of Aquilim 315 off eBay once. It sure seemed similar. If not 315 then probably one of the others; they make a whole line of water-based glues according to their website.

Problem is it's from Europe and is expensive no matter where I find it.

Weldwood is cheap and strong but the fumes make me nauseous, and I'm often gluing linings which require a large swath of it to be used. Ecoweld has very little oder (it reminds me of watered-down Elmers glue) and is plenty strong enough.

 

[bikermutt07]

12 hours ago, Chakotay said:

I'm presuming Tandy is just the distributor/rebrander.

I ordered a small bottle of Aquilim 315 off eBay once. It sure seemed similar. If not 315 then probably one of the others; they make a whole line of water-based glues according to their website.

Problem is it's from Europe and is expensive no matter where I find it.

Weldwood is cheap and strong but the fumes make me nauseous, and I'm often gluing linings which require a large swath of it to be used. Ecoweld has very little oder (it reminds me of watered-down Elmers glue) and is plenty strong enough.

 

Thanks

[Jeffro2058]

On 4/29/2019 at 7:44 AM, Handstitched said:

G'Day,

Well, as  we no longer have a Tandy in Australia, I've conducted  a bit of a ' test'. I've just ordered a free Tandy  catalogue to see how long it takes for it to arrive in Australia from the US  . I'm guessing around 4 - 6 weeks.  

I've just checked their website here in Oz (  no shipping info)  , makes a change to see one price instead of three, and they do seem to be a bit cheaper. And depending on how long the delivery takes,( and shipping costs)  I may consider ordering from Tandy again . 

We'll see  

HS

Tandy Leather is no longer mailing catalogs outside of the USA and Canada from their home office in Texas. You will have to view the online version from their website. 

[Handstitched]

G'Day  Jeffro2058  Thanks for the update  

I ticked/ clicked  all the boxes  and the order went through OK, no messages saying they don't ship to Oz  or the order has been cancelled ?  I'll be patient . 

I just want to see how long it takes to ship stuff from the US to Oz to see if its going to be viable for me  to order from Tandy again.

Also, the 15% discount for businesses or any other savings  may be eaten up by shipping costs to Australia . However, I have ordered stuff from a wholesaler in Pennsylvania in the past and its arrived quicker from the US  than our own postal service could deliver . Go figure ? 

HS 

 

[Danne]

My thoughts on this. I have done leathercraft for around three years.

The first thing I bought was some really cheap Chinese tools on eBay. After a while, I thought I buy some better tools, which I bought from Tandy. 

Now I have a mix of budget tools and expensive tools. (From Leathercrafttools, Goodsjapan, Ksblade, Kevinlee and such) If I have a look at Tandys website I don't find anything I want. But I have found some tools on Aliexpress that I'm going to buy, like hole punches from Wuta. Tandy sells a cheap hole punch set, but useless unless you sharpen/reshape them. 

[bikermutt07]

42 minutes ago, Danne said:

My thoughts on this. I have done leathercraft for around three years.

The first thing I bought was some really cheap Chinese tools on eBay. After a while, I thought I buy some better tools, which I bought from Tandy. 

Now I have a mix of budget tools and expensive tools. (From Leathercrafttools, Goodsjapan, Ksblade, Kevinlee and such) If I have a look at Tandys website I don't find anything I want. But I have found some tools on Aliexpress that I'm going to buy, like hole punches from Wuta. Tandy sells a cheap hole punch set, but useless unless you sharpen/reshape them. 

I bought the Wuta hole punches. They are excellent.

I also bought the whole set of half round punches. They needed a little touch up on the belt sander. They are great now.

[fredk]

I'll throw my $2 worth in; Last week when I heard Tandy Manchester is to close I finalised an order I'd been sitting on. I thought the order would be filled by Manchester, but it went thru to Texas

When I got the dispatch advice I noticed it was for far less money than it had been, so I checked off the items to see what had been left out. Everything I ordered was still there but each item was about 15 to 20% cheaper. A tax was added on the sub-total. Even that the final tally is some 11% less ~ £440 opposed to £494

Tandy Texas says DHL delivery will be 2 to 3 days to me. DHL says 7 days [maybe]

[mikesc]

Bear in mind that DHL may still ask you to pay VAT upon the final total showing on your Tandy account invoice , when they present you with your parcel on arrival at your door...Unless the Tandy invoice says that it is inclusive of VAT at 20% applied to the total of goods ( inc US taxes) and shipping ( and if it does, they'll give you their VAT number, so that you can claim the VAT back if you are VAT registered yourself ) ..or unless you get lucky and they've billed you EX VAT, but it "slides past the VAT man" who doesn't thus slap 20% VAT on the lot when it is incoming with DHL to Norn.

IME the fastest part of any shipping to Europe via DHL is the first "outward" leg from wherever..then, depending on the time of day when it reaches their first "hub" which for you may actually be in Germany or in The Netherlands, it can get slower..Only the sender is allowed to "complain" about any delays, despite it being the receiving party ( customer ) who has paid the freight..Because you are Tandy ( or whoever's customer ) not DHL ( or whoever's) customer..Unless you have it shipped on your account with DHL or whoever.

Edited May 2, 2019 by mikesc

[fredk]

This is the message I got in answer to my queries about taxes et cetera;

quote

Hi Fred,

Orders will be shipped by DHL Express. Customs and duties will be prepaid.  We will be charging UK customers a flat fee of 10 British pounds per order, regardless of weight.  DHL is telling us to 2-3 shipping days once it leaves our warehouse. 

 

end quote

 

As for DHL delivery time to me; as I've said elsewhere it can take DHL anything up to 2 months to deliver 'Express 48' items to me. So their quote of 2 to 3 days to Tandy is already false. By Tandy's timing I should receive  the parcel today, not next Tuesday.

[mikesc]

"Customs and duties will be prepaid."..That usually means that taxes upon the goods and the customs broker fees are included, doesn't mean that VAT is, unless Tandy have sent you a VAT invoice and also their VAT number..

Cross your fingers that it slides by the VAT man..If it doesn't DHL will ask you for a cheque..for 20% of whatever your order total was including what the shipping via DHL was.
VAT cannot be charged at a "flat rate" ..it is by law..20% of total cost ( of goods, plus any customs brokers fees, plus any duties, plus any shipping charges ) ..

When you ask Tandy ( if you do..don't ask about "taxes" ask specifically does it include VAT at UK rate ( Value Added Tax ) and if they say "yes" ask them for a "VAT invoice" and for their VAT number..If they do not have a VAT number, it is not inclusive of VAT, if it does not mention VAT on the invoice total, it is not- inclusive..

An example ( from today ) ..I have my Godaddy account open in another window on a different browser on this machine..
I have over a hundred domains names registered with Godaddy.com ( but they are hosted elsewhere, here in France for the most part ) but registered with Godaddy in the USA..I've been a customer of theirs for nearly 20 years..They have always charged me per each domain "name" as follows ( domain price+ ICANN taxes+ "taxes" ) and then on that total, they charge me an additional 20% VAT..Their invoice says VAT is charged ( USA and NON EU customers do not pay that 20% on top ) and they give me their VAT number so I can claim it back in my accounts..

All of my Domains are set to "auto-renew"..I was checking my bank statements today..and noticed that they had as usual auto-renewed some of my .fr domains ( which would expire in mid may ) at the beginning of April ( 6 weeks in advance ) this despite that 2 years or so ago Godaddy bought a domain registrar in the EU, and opened a call centre ( multi-lingual ) in Northern Ireland to "service" their EU customers..Brexit may mean that they'll close it and move it to Eire to stay in the EU..But, even if they don't, Godaddy USA ( who bill me in dollars..bill me "including taxes" and then add 20% VAT to the bill at the end, before they debit the French credit card..

Edited May 2, 2019 by mikesc
speeling.. typing whilst going out the door..

[Handstitched]

Looks very confusing, just like our GST ( ' good & services tax ' ) here in Oz  

HS

[NVLeatherWorx]

But it also opens up the question as to what Tandy has as a plan going forward.  For example, they have a large majority of their leathers listed as Close-Out and the same goes for their tools.  On the tools side of things it looks like they are keeping the low-quality stuff and blowing out the Craftool Pro tools (they are steel for crying out loud and not that garbage that the regular tools are made from).  They currently have more on Clearance/Close-Out than they do on their "keeper" list so what is their plan to provide better without the extra bull when they won't have anything left?

Even if they were to reduce their footprint by closing stores they still have to maintain an inventory of the materials and goods that all level of craftsman need to supply an online oriented operation and right now it isn't on their list (or more accurately their website) so maybe there is some more information coming down the line for us.

[Doc Reaper]

I almost stopped going completely, they actually started gouging customers that were there for decades, and ran off those that were just starting out. 

Saddle skirting was sold at apex $75 for a side and then shot up to &138 a side for elite sales. They really should be more giving to those that purchase every 2 weeks and have a business in the industry, they do know who I am and what I do. They have even asked if I would volunteer to give a class or two. 

Im sorry if this part seems shallow but paying out money to supply my business with their products then educating new students that will be buying items to make using products that they sell seems like they are only helping themselves. All the while I’m paying top dollar - in person- because I can’t trust the store to send me a quality item that should of been picked as though they were going to use it. 

Am I upset with Tandy, hell yes! I gave them ideas over the phone and face to face, even though I am a customer that actually works leather and sees the flaws they don’t because upper management is worried if they are going to get a bonus for meeting the weekly sales numbers! 

I told them (on the phone) that their practices in greed had to be curbed. Their press costed like over $200, Harbor Fright has a one ton press for around $50

their price gouging had to be forced to a lower scale, or close the doors. Price restructuring may be a bit too late, we will all know within six months if their doors will stay open. 

[Tugadude]

Comparisons between Tandy and Harbor Freight are meaningless.  Harbor Freight is good at what it does, selling mediocre tools cheaply.  Their volume, and their sourcing gives them a huge advantage over many other retailers.  That includes Tandy.  Also, I haven't compared the presses side-by-side, but it is likely that the press sold by Tandy is of better quality.  But even if it is the same, you are dealing with volume purchase discounts and differing margin structures.  Even the way the items get shipped out to the retail stores might differ, resulting in a lot more freight and handling on behalf of Tandy.  When I've visited Harbor Freight they have two registers going constantly and I have to wait to get to certain aisles because of the number of shoppers.  In Tandy, I am usually the only customer.   I am in the construction materials business and I face the same pressures as many retailers in that someone is always going to be cheaper.  The way to justify a higher price is by adding value.  That value can come in the form of better service, more knowledge about the trade, etc.  If Tandy isn't adding any value for you anymore, then feel free to shop elsewhere.  

Over the years I have gotten very frustrated with the way folks beat up on Tandy here.  Always bemoaning the high prices and the supposed lack of quality (even though they have improved their tools immensely in recent years).  Personally, I rarely buy leather there, but do buy tools and hardware and consumables.  Tandy is what it is.  Or actually, it isn't anymore because they are changing their pricing structure and shutting down stores.  Those moves are a direct result of market factors.  You either grow or you die.  You either change when facing negative market forces or you die.  Tandy is trying to save itself.  Tandy is probably more responsible for introducing people into this craft than any other single factor.  They are a "one-stop-shop" for the beginner.  They offer classes at many of their stores.

Ask yourself one question.  Are you going to miss them if they go?  If the answer is no, then so be it.  If the answer is yes, then I guess they still hold some value in your eyes.  If your answer was the latter, then I guess you should try to support them.  Otherwise you've helped seal their doom.

Edited May 7, 2019 by Tugadude

[fredk]

On 5/2/2019 at 12:56 PM, mikesc said:

Bear in mind that DHL may still ask you to pay VAT upon the final total showing on your Tandy account invoice , when they present you with your parcel on arrival at your door...Unless the Tandy invoice says that it is inclusive of VAT at 20% applied to the total of goods . . . 

I asked both Tandy and DHL about customs, taxes and VAT  and never got a real clear answer

However, after some palava and missed delivery dates by DHL and me chasing Tandy via emails I  finally got my order at approx 15.00 BST today.

No customs duties, taxes or VAT  had to be paid by me. The £440 I paid directly to Tandy was the full and total amount

Evidence from DHL says it went thru UK customs clearing

[mikesc]

Lucky man..( there is an expression re the luck of us Irish ) I hope UK customs continue to be nice to you in such a way*..
Now..go buy a scratch card or two ..whilst you are on a roll.. :)

edited to add..*that may mean that Tandy charged you inc VAT..did they give you a VAT number on the paper work that was included within the parcel that DHL delivered , ( or was stuck to the outside ) ..You'll need it ( if Tandy charged £440 inc VAT ) in order to reclaim the VAT, if you are registered for VAT...

Additional thought, Given the ( eventual ..some day, maybe ) "looming" Brexit, and the as yet unknown ways that may affect NI, worth keeping any and all paperwork relating to anything imported from anywhere and exported to anywhere, even other EU countries..you never know..

Edited May 9, 2019 by mikesc

[Matt S]

38 minutes ago, fredk said:

I asked both Tandy and DHL about customs, taxes and VAT  and never got a real clear answer

However, after some palava and missed delivery dates by DHL and me chasing Tandy via emails I  finally got my order at approx 15.00 BST today.

No customs duties, taxes or VAT  had to be paid by me. The £440 I paid directly to Tandy was the full and total amount

Evidence from DHL says it went thru UK customs clearing

Several couriers are offering an option to calculate and pay the various import charges before shipment -- something I've seen on eBay and Amazon. I wonder if this is how Tandy are doing it, and either working the average costs into the prices for each country or simply absorbing them from their profit margin.

[mikesc]

Several couriers are offering an option to calculate and pay the various import charges before shipment -- something I've seen on eBay and Amazon. I wonder if this is how Tandy are doing it, and either working the average costs into the prices for each country or simply absorbing them from their profit margin.

That is interesting, I hadn't heard of that ( I don't buy much on ebay or Amazon, as "imports" ) I think I'll phone some of the people that I do import from and ask them to see if their DHL or the shippers that they use for groupage ( so as to use DHL, but much cheaper ) offer this..If I pay the DHL rates at my end via an account in France , prior to incoming shipping, it can cost me as much as 4 times the price* that the exporters pay DHL in their countries to ship the same goods, in the same planes, on the same routes, to me ..So, I usually pay them the extra for "inc shipping via DHL" and let them pay DHL ( or whoever does the DHL groupage in their country) in advance at their end.

*DHL France have told me that I'm not supposed to know how much other people ( in France or other countries pay for shipments from anywhere to anywhere ) pay for DHL , this despite the "local" DHL rate cards being available on line in many countries via the DHL websites in those countries..

Edited May 9, 2019 by mikesc

[Matt S]

47 minutes ago, mikesc said:

 

That is interesting, I hadn't heard of that ( I don't buy much on ebay or Amazon, as "imports" ) I think I'll phone some of the people that I do import from and ask them to see if their DHL or the shippers that they use for groupage ( so as to use DHL, but much cheaper ) offer this..If I pay the DHL rates at my end via an account in France , prior to incoming shipping, it can cost me as much as 4 times the price* that the exporters pay DHL in their countries to ship the same goods, in the same planes, on the same routes, to me ..So, I usually pay them the extra for "inc shipping via DHL" and let them pay DHL ( or whoever does the DHL groupage in their country) in advance at their end.

*DHL France have told me that I'm not supposed to know how much other people ( in France or other countries pay for shipments from anywhere to anywhere ) pay for DHL , this despite the "local" DHL rate cards being available on line in many countries via the DHL websites in those countries..

 

EBuystuff calls it their Global Shipping Program, and the seller ships to their national distribution node (paying domestic shipping). eBay sorts out customs and international shipping (having calculated things at checkout and the customer having already paid all relevant charges). 

Amazon calls it Global Store I think:


Looks about the correct amount of largess going to the government, so HMRC is happy. No valuation delays at customs so they're happy. Courier doesn't have a bunch of packages hanging round or have to collect payment from the customer so they're happy. And the customer doesn't have their package delayed or have to pay a handling fee so they're happy.

Not sure if it'll help you in your situation Mike but there it is.

[fredk]

2 hours ago, mikesc said:

edited to add..*that may mean that Tandy charged you inc VAT..did they give you a VAT number on the paper work that was included within the parcel that DHL delivered , ( or was stuck to the outside ) ..You'll need it ( if Tandy charged £440 inc VAT ) in order to reclaim the VAT, if you are registered for VAT...

Additional thought, Given the ( eventual ..some day, maybe ) "looming" Brexit, and the as yet unknown ways that may affect NI, worth keeping any and all paperwork relating to anything imported from anywhere and exported to anywhere, even other EU countries..you never know..

a. Only paper work is the standard Tandy packing list. No VAT number, I didn't ask for one as I don't require it

b. I've found there is no need to keep any paperwork for any longer than 2 years or so,  then only for HMRC purposes and audited accounts. When I had Limited Companies the necessary papers went into the files at Company House.

1 hour ago, Matt S said:

Several couriers are offering an option to calculate and pay the various import charges before shipment -- something I've seen on eBay and Amazon. I wonder if this is how Tandy are doing it, and either working the average costs into the prices for each country or simply absorbing them from their profit margin.

I've bought from the US and the business sellers have paid the necessary duties/taxes at their end and the item just floated to me

Tandy keeps telling me when I order I'll be paying VAT just as I have always done. Whether this time is a one-off or the norm only time and more orders will tell us

Edited May 9, 2019 by fredk

[mikesc]

Thanks Matt S..useful to know if / when I order internationally from ebay or Amazon..( I'll test each of them to see if it is offered to customers based in France )

fredK

a. Only paper work is the standard Tandy packing list. No VAT number, I didn't ask for one as I don't require it

b. I've found there is no need to keep any paperwork for any longer than 2 years or so, then only for HMRC purposes and audited accounts. When I had Limited Companies the necessary papers went into the files at Company House.

re a.They should be giving you their VAT number automatically if they are charging it, whether or not you asked for it, it is the law..Plus, if the UK tax man ever asked you ( within the next two years ) what you did with the £88.00 ( that being 20% VAT part of the £440.00 that you paid Tandy ) even if you are not going to be claiming it back..you'd need their VAT number to prove that you didn't spend the £88.00 on Hookers, blow, and booze..or just waste it :)

HMRC etc would always ( if they decide to check your "books" ) rather make it your fault, if they wonder where your money went ( you are "to hand", than Tandy's fault , Tandy are "far away", and certainly HMRC never allow it to be their fault ) ..

re b. You are lucky..when I lived and ran businesses in the UK..I had to keep receipts etc for far longer..Last UK LTD I had , ( while living here in France ) I shut it down as soon as the Brexit result came in..Here paperwork has to be kept for an average of 6 years..some slightly shorter, some longer, much longer..Even when one is not in business..We've got 3 metres of shelves of box files..The guy with the villa across from ours has an entire room dedicated to his paperwork..and he was never in business ( veterinary inspector for French ministry of Agriculture..retired ) ..land of paper work we live in..

Back to subject...are you happy with what they sent you ?

[fredk]

I got what I ordered

[Sam I Am]

OK, so now that I got this whole "getting rid of the membership" stuff, my humble opinion on why Corp decided to do this is because there were other places to go with competitive pricing (like for instance i do know of one individual who was quite clever. He paid the money for whatever membership gave him the biggest discount, stocked up on inventory, sold it for more than he paid for it, but less than i would have - and we were both happy campers. Guess this puts a bit of a cramp on his Adventures In Capitalism career, but I gotta give him kudos. 

Anyway, I think that corp is looking at that, and as far as closing stores, you have to go to where the market and demand is. I had one shop in Allentown, interest petered out for whatever reason, now the one that's north of my job in Jersey is hopping by comparison. So, that worked out well...

[lws380]

They no longer offer products in but sizes either according to my store that I visited.  I wanted Chicago screws in 100 packs, but now the biggest in 10 packs.  Great way to drive away business.  I'm guessing some marketing moron is involved.