Prepunching Holes?

[robs456]

9 hours ago, mikesc said:

cheifjason did indeed mention "drill press" and "drilling"..the latter word would indeed normally mean that he made his awl "rotate"..which would be what you were referring to..and as a "technique" would be weird, because you don't need to rotate an awl to make it make a hole..But maybe that was a "slip of his keyboard"..or maybe he does rotate the awl with the drill ?

No, I was referring to the vile practice of actually using a drill to make holes for sewing or lacing. Which removes material. 
I can't really tell if chiefjason meant that he actually rotates the awl, but thinking about it that would mean that the hole gets burnished and probably won't close much or at all, and would make the leather smooth so that the thread doesn't grip all that well.

9 hours ago, mikesc said:

:)) Yes, we ( members ) all know the "mechanics"..But I'm also thinking of those reading / lurking ( now and / or in the future ) who are not / may not be aware of the "mechanics"..So..when posting..I tend to "spell it out"..for the "invisible audience", who come here because what to us is now ( because we have learned and gained experience ) "second nature"..may well be to them..entirely new..

Ya, I do too..OK.

[Tugadude]

For what it is worth I have decided after a couple of days reflection to at least back away from the forum for awhile.  Might be back, might not, we'll see.  Right now the "fire" is gone.  I guess as a "going away" post I want to clarify what I said above.  I stand by everything I said and feel that it was pretty accurate.  One, small thing that I said could be interpreted as being in error, but in actuality may not be is using a sewing machine to make holes.  I've never punched a sewing needle through leather and then sat and watched to see if the hole closes up, perhaps it does, perhaps it doesn't.  Maybe the size of needle in relation to thread also makes a difference.  Guess we'll have to do a double-blind study with all of the variables accounted for.  Volunteers line up to the right.

What I do know is that if you use a drill press with a drill bit and turn it on it is going to make a hole and that hole won't close up.  That was the main point of my post, trying to establish the superiority of an awl when making holes versus a drill bit that is not tapered.  This point was lost on some.  I could have been clearer.  I meant HOLES, like the huge ones on some pre-punched projects sold in stores.  That sort of hole.  Sorry I wasn't clear.

An awl used in a drill press that is not turned on, simply used to move it up and down is somewhat equal to using the awl stitch-by-stitch.  The difference is that when you do them all in advance, they begin closing as soon as you punch (assuming you remove the awl!), so in effect they will shrink somewhat by the time you get the work into the pony.  Easy enough to go through them with the awl again if that presents problems.  The hole is already there, just expand it.

Regarding making sure information is accurate, I have spaced this post out to make it easier to cut-and-paste and correct.  

We don't want misinformation polluting all of the future information seekers.  I mean, the internet is all full or truth and accuracy, right?

Take care all.  I've learned a lot from this forum.  I wish for nothing but success in its future!

[robs456]

7 hours ago, Tugadude said:

What I do know is that if you use a drill press with a drill bit and turn it on it is going to make a hole and that hole won't close up.  That was the main point of my post, trying to establish the superiority of an awl when making holes versus a drill bit that is not tapered.  This point was lost on some.  I could have been clearer.  I meant HOLES, like the huge ones on some pre-punched projects sold in stores.  That sort of hole.  Sorry I wasn't clear.

Yes, I got it! The first time, as well. Do I get a prize? Also, you are correct.
Too bad you're leaving, but I understand, hope to see you in a while.

As a parting gift I give you the root of the issue:

7 hours ago, Tugadude said:

Regarding making sure information is accurate, I have spaced this post out to make it easier to cut-and-paste and correct.  

We don't want future information seekers.  I mean, the internet is all full, right?

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sorry...

[dikman]

On 6/4/2019 at 6:13 AM, mikesc said:

An arbour / arbor press ( if you could fit an awl or a needle into it ) would do just the same..
 

Actually, Mike, I've done just that. I couldn't push the awl through when I made a holster with a thickish welt, and none of my machines are capable of handling more than 1/2" so I made an adapter to fit a spare awl bit into a rivet press. It will go through 7/8", the maximum that I can fit under it (for now). That will let me pre-punch the holes and then when I put it in the pony run my awl through it and then the needles.

[Handstitched]

Well, just to throw a spanner in the works. I dont use the ' traditional ' diamond  awl, I use sewing machine needles in sewing  awl hafts. Have done for the past 15 years   

This works just fiiiine for me, and may never work for anyone else .., it may not be ' traditional' ...but it works . 

Here are my awls. The one on the far left is the one I use all the time ,at the end on the haft, theres a tiny hole that I use to help push the needle through.  However, depending on the job, and needs a heavier thread, I use the one in the middle or the one on the * right. ( *its actually a needle from ' Brutus' , my saddle machine ) .    The sewing  needles I use are ' John James Egg Eyed  Harness needles  # 1, or # 1/0 . 

The bit of wood on the far right, is a piece of soft ' MDF', so I have something to push against, mainly because my hands do have the usual aches & pains ( and maybe a bit of arthritis)   and the wood helps, and doesn't damage the needles.  I do sometimes pre-punch the holes , and sometimes do one hole at at time, however, I cant always hold  both the needle & the haft in the same hand, my hands aren't big enough . 

I have used a pricking iron on occasion,  and even used my saddle machine to make holes as well because my hands are so sore.  . My preferences vary from one job to the next.  . 

The bag is just one example of the end result , using the awl on the left, and  a pair of JJ 1/0 needles. 

Each to his or her own. Everyone here is different .  Just do what works for you.  Thats my 2 cents worth . 

HS