Best Sewing Machines- New vs Used/Antique

[Wizcrafts]

1 hour ago, jrprottas said:

I'm totally lost on your thread/needle chart as to how to find equivalent pairings? How does the lockstitch compare to a traditional saddlestitch in terms of strength?

The needle - thread pairings are shown in the first and second columns on the left. For example, needle size 25/200 pairs best with #277 (T270) bonded nylon or bonded polyester, or 4 cord linen thread (~ .0231 inches, or .586mm). The .040 inch thread you mentioned is 1mm diameter and would require a #30 needle. It is bigger than #554 bonded thread. You would need a Union Lockstitch, or Campbell-Randall Lockstitch, or a sole stitcher to sew this size thread.

The strength of lockstitch thread is that of the smallest thread if the bobbin is smaller than the top. Otherwise, it is as shown in the needle and thread chart under the "Break Strength" column. Thus, if you sew something with #277 bonded nylon thread, top and bottom, the breaking strength of each stitch would be 45 pounds lateral pull. A force exceeding that would cause a stitch to let go.

I am not sure about the strength of hand sewn saddle stitches. It might be as strong as either thread, or both doubled up. It is outside of my purview. All I know is that is takes much longer to hand sew than machine sew. Most customers prefer to pay less for any given item than more, so we machine sew unless asked and paid to hand sew or do over the edge lacing.

[Matt S]

9 hours ago, jrprottas said:

  I had thought these brands (CB, Cobra, Techsew, Consew) were the best of the best.  Can you provide specific cylinder arm models of Juki, Adler, Seiko, etc for straight stitch sewing for 1/2"+ layered leather sewing?  If really 2 to 3 times more expensive these may not be in my future, but would appreciate learning about them.

Those brands are popular because they give you Juki 441-like machines at a fraction the price of a real one. I'm sure they're good (we don't get many this side of the pond) and many businesses seem happy to give them house room.

Not an exhaustive list, but the 1/2"+ of thickness would really limit your choices. Juki 441, Adler 969 and Seiko CH-8 would be suitable. Expect to pay somewhere between $6-10K depending on options.

[jrprottas]

You guys are awesome. I've learned so much from your stickies and posts. 

I'm new to leather machines. Expect to be a hobbyist more than a retailer and will not use the machine daily.

I think I'm looking for:

walking foot - triple feed

cylinder arm with optional table

#25/#207 capable

M bobbin

3/8 to 1/2" vegtan penetration

Would like to have a machine weighing far less than 200 pounds with the above specs.

Am I dreaming?

 

 

[jrprottas]

Thread/needle sizes for industrial machines are theoretical at this point, as I've learned theres not a direct correlation between saddlestitch needles/threads. What would you recommend for small backpacks? Is #207/#25 a safe bet?

[Wizcrafts]

I believe the machine that best matches your specs, at the lowest out the door cost, is the Cowboy CB3200. The only difference is that it uses a barrel shaped bobbin that holds a lot more thread than an M or U bobbin. They have authorized dealers in Ohio and Texas.

There are a lot of members who have this machine because it can sew with heavy thread into 1/2 inch of leather.

[bland]

I own a couple of machines now and I have been quite happy with both.  A 441 clone Cobra class 4 and a Juki 1508 NH.  I had no experience with leather sewing machines when I got the Cobra and had a few struggles the learning curve was quite steep.  I thought I could just make adjustments and go from heavy to light materials quickly and easily.  Not so much the case.  Thankfully for this forum and a good dealer with great customer service.  I learned quickly that one machine does not do it all easily.   I can do fine tuning but no radical changes anymore for me.  The class 4 is set up for heavy work only now.  I bought the Juki from a local sewing shop where I knew a little more of what I was looking for now that I had my heavy machine.  I opted for a flatbed machine that would still sew some significant veg tan leather as well as some softer chap and upholstery leather when required. 

My advice is if you don't have a lot of experience working on or with industrial sewing machines it is worth getting one from a reputable dealer who will give great customer support and some expert advice.  Who will know what needle size and thread size you will need.   Ask a lot of questions, based on the kind of projects you will be doing (small backpacks, etc.), how much you will be using it,  what features you want,  shop space requirements and etc.   You will probably have to pay $1500 to $5000 depending on your requirements.   I believe your profile says you in California you might give Leather Machine Co a call and maybe visit with them as they are in Ontario, CA they have a variety of machines and if you are close by you may be able to save shipping costs.  There are probably other industrial sewing machine shops in California as well that would be happy to help you.  

P.S.  Local dealers might even have machines you can try out to see what you like best.  

Edited August 2, 2019 by bland
add P.S.

[jrprottas]

Wiz. You're right  the Cowboy 3200 seems to meet my needs best and your info hasnt steered me wrong yet. Are you familiar with the CB 3200 HC  portable. It would save me a few dollars upfront,  and address the weight issue. It would seem it wouldnt preclude getting the standing pro-stand and servo down the line....on the surface no downside.   What do you think of this idea? Thanks Jeff

 

[Wizcrafts]

24 minutes ago, jrprottas said:

Are you familiar with the CB 3200 HC  portable.

Yes, but not from actual experience. However, I have Barney handles on both patchers and frequently hand wheel my CB4500 and Singer 42-5 around corners.

[thunter9]

i have a cb 4500 the complete package would  like to sell . even have the foam the head was shipped in 

do to my health 

[Matt S]

@jrprottas bear in mind that those "portable" setups are still quite heavy. The head alone on a 3200 must be over 100lb.