Hoping for help with my new patcher (Adler 30-1)

[Vinito]

Noted.

As I mentioned in my original post, I ended up with this machine kind of by accident, but it nudged me into looking at working leather for yet another hobby. So the patcher has served its nefarious collateral purpose whether it's the correct tool for what I make or not. This whole thing has opened me up to looking into more suitable machines as well though. Maybe someday I'll be looking seriously at one. I kind of need more space for that, but I'm working on adding some finished rooms to the house this winter, so who knows? In the meantime, I can always just hand stitch. I'm pretty good at working with my hands (50 years of doing it all the time) so I feel like I can probably pull that off OK. Plus the chances are highly unlikely that I'll make much for anyone but myself and a few friends maybe. You never know I guess, but I'll probably be a pretty low volume leather newby for quite a while.

Also, by "holsters" I just kind of mean generic belt-loop holders for things like cell phone, tools and knife sheaths, etc. mostly, although I might do actual holsters from time to time I guess. I have some other half-baked ideas rattling around my head as well. At any rate, if this patcher will do 1/4" I think that will work fairly well for some things I have in mind. We'll see.

Thanks for the recommendations though. I will, no doubt, be coming back to this post for reference and you've lined up some pretty good specs there in a short post. I appreciate it.

Edited August 26, 2019 by Vinito

[Wizcrafts]

55 minutes ago, Vinito said:

At any rate, if this patcher will do 1/4" I think that will work fairly well for some things I have in mind.

It will, as long as it is properly adjusted. The foot lift is changeable on the back by a moving collar on the long pressure spring. Moving the collar all the way to the right causes maximum lift. You may be able to eek our as much as 5/16 inch, depending. But, with the small trad and needles it uses that's a lot of leather to hold with thin thread. You'll probably break a lot of thin needles trying.

You can start making extra money by sewing patches onto Bikers' vests and jackets. Your machine can install new zippers into light weight jackets. Go gettem!

[Vinito]

Dangit. I need more help or more smarts. Dunno if either is possible... maybe more help for a fee or something.

I got the #138 thread and #19 needles and now the stitch is tight on the bottom again with top tension set as tight as it will go.

Questions:

1) if the pickup arm is not adjusted properly (spring, etc.) will it cause the tension to be goofy like that or is that more to just cause a hook pickup problem? (because the hook is picking up the upper thread just fine). At the moment, I have a substitute spring arrangement hacked on the pickup arm, which I can configure three different ways depending on how much tension I want to shoot for. Thus far none of the three configurations make a difference.

2) if shuttle timing is not correct, will that cause tension balance problems or also just hook pickup problem?

3) I'm pretty sure the paddle spring on the needle bar near the needle works OK, but I could be wrong. If that is worn or something can this also cause a stitch tension balance issue?

D) all of the above?

This is about all I can think of which might be causing a problem. Both the bobbin and upper tensioners are in pretty good shape (other than being primitive and low-tech)

In case it matters, when I pull the thread out manually from the bobbin and upper to compare, I can adjust upper tension to range between obviously a bit lighter than the bobbin to about 4x tighter than the bobbin (ouch!), thus the tension adjustment evidently works about right.

The bobbin is the new, higher quality Towa one and it was working same as the first one with the smaller thread and larger needle (though drastically better-made). So this problem only happens with more properly sized needle & thread. I should maybe switch out some parts so I have a more specific idea which thing illuminates the tension problem. But the previous needle & thread were a drastically bad match so I can't see stepping back to that and settling there. I'd really like to get the #19 needle and #138 thread to sew decent if possible.

Anyway, I'm rambling now. I could try to make a movie showing slow motion timing of the cycle if that would help. Can't see the bobbin unless the cover is off though, so it wouldn't be actually pulling thread for that video. Somebody let me know if you would be willing to take a look at that if willing and if it would be helpful.

Thanks for any attention on this.

Edited August 29, 2019 by Vinito

[mikesc]

"pickup arm" ?..You mean the horizontal arm where the needle bar is going through ( along with the stitch length regulator etc ) ? Or the rocking / pivoting assembly upper "arm" that drives the needle bar up and down when you turn the handle, which turns the wheel?

Neither IME is "the pick up arm"

Quote

the stitch is tight on the bottom again

You mean the bottom thread is straight and not sinking** into the leather at all..So , when you look at the bottom of the material(s) that you are stitching, ( turn them over ) you are seeing tiny "knubs" of the top thread on the bottom, because it is being pulled down ( all the way through the material(s) by the bottom thread ? If so..That is either bottom tension too high, or top tension too low..Normally you set the bottom ( bobbin ) tension to have just a slight resistance when you pull the thread..and then adjust the top tension until the stitch is being made with "the crossover" of the two threads ( top and bottom ) happening in the middle of the "sandwich" made by whatever material(s) you are sewing.

The correct terminology is very important for anyone to be able to "troubleshoot" at a distance.be it a sewing machine, a diesel engine, or a computer...frequently the same terms / words do not refer to the same things depending on context.

"Gusset" in a leatherworkers bag..is not the same thing as "gusset" in leather lingerie. ..although you can sort of see the connection , if you consider the shapes.

**Strictly speaking , the bottom thread does not "sink in", it gets pulled up, by the top thread..but when you turn the material over, to inspect the bottom of your stitches, it then appears to be sinking in..or be "pulled down". "Too tight" might apply to the bottom thread, but not to "the bottom stitch", there is no such thing, there is however, the "bottom part of the stitch" ..as the stitch is made up of the combined action of the bottom and top thread..thus there is no "top stitch", nor is there a "bottom stitch".

Varying more than one variable thing at a time, when you have a bunch of variables..is usually not advisable, unless you know exactly what they all do, and how they all interact.

Edited August 29, 2019 by mikesc

[Vinito]

"Pick-up arm" - I meant the take-up lever.

Quote

the stitch is tight on the bottom again

Not sure what you're meaning is regarding bottom thread sinking in nor appearance ov being "pulled down" if you flip the material over. I looked and would be happy to correct myself, but I didn't mention a bottom stitch or top stitch. As quoted, my stitch, as a whole, being made up of a top thread and bottom thread, is tight on the bottom, i.e. the bottom thread is tight. And yes, to me that means the bottom thread is not sinking into the leather at all. Yes all I see is the nubs from the top thread and a straight length of bottom thread. When top thread is as high as I can set it and pull on it and compare to bottom thread, it is at least 4x tighter than the bobbin tension. Can't set it tighter and I think it would just start snapping thread if I could.

I could just punt and take up another hobby. Evidently I can't even communicate my problem, let alone troubleshoot and solve it.

Edited August 29, 2019 by Vinito

[Constabulary]

deleted

 

Edited August 29, 2019 by Constabulary

[chrisash]

When you pull the bottom thread out of the bobbin, how much tension is there on the thread, when you pull out a foot of thread from the bobbin and then use it to lift the bobbin off a table, it should stay in the same place, and if you give a little shake bore thread should come out, you adjust the bobbin tension with the small screw in the hook

It sounds like you have far to much tension on the bobbin

The tension on the bobbin only needs very small movements of the tension screw at a time maybe a 10 degrees at a time

[RockyAussie]

On 8/26/2019 at 10:45 AM, Wizcrafts said:

You are correct in saying that the needles are too big for the thread. I use #18 (110) needles with #69 thread and sometimes #16 (100) for better precision. A #140 needle is a #22 in Singer size and is the typical recommended for #138 thread, top and bottom. I personally find the holes too tight in leather and prefer a #23/160 with #138 thread.

 

7 hours ago, Vinito said:

Dangit. I need more help or more smarts. Dunno if either is possible... maybe more help for a fee or something.

I got the #138 thread and #19 needles and now the stitch is tight on the bottom again with top tension set as tight as it will go

I have quoted Wiz above for you to see his advise again. If you are trying to pull 138 thread up through a hole made by a size 19 needle I think you got buckleys chance. Note where wiz said #22 is recomended for 138 thread and he prefers a larger needle than that. On real soft leather you might just nearly make it work but on 1/4" veg .....

[mikesc]

Well spotted Brian ( I missed the needle size, "pick up arm" threw me )..Yep , a #19 needle has "Buckley's" or "Soddall's" or "Kerdall's" chance making a hole big enough to for the top thread to pull the bottom thread up through..I'm with wiz on that , even a #22 is a little small, a #23 is better.

Re "bottom stitch and top stitch"..Vinito.. :) yes you did not say "bottom stitch"..but it was "the stitch on the bottom", which implies that there is another stitch somewhere, or that you maybe thought that the two threads were referred to as "the stitch on the top" and "the stitch on the bottom" ( which would make two stitches in total) ."on the bottom of the stitch" ( same words, different order, better describes the stitch, and doesn't imply another stitch ( on the top ) I tend to reply not only for the benefit of the OP, but also for any who may be lurking, or who arrive to threads later.Possibly with English not as "their mother tongue"..Auto-translate is crap , so using the terms as they are in the manual ( which they may have an different language version of ) is far less likely to lead to confusion.Also many people's bandwidth and / or data caps, does not allow them to go looking at youtube to see either solutions or videos of problems. 

Edited August 29, 2019 by mikesc

[Vinito]

Good catch @RockyAussie on the thread & needle combos. I was conflating data from memory and not surprised I'm out of sync on it.

Tonight I'll try again as per Wiz's correct specs recommendation and I expect things to go much better.

Duh! 

Much thanks!

I guess I was confused at Mikesc's confusion because I said the stitch (singular) is tight on the bottom and didn't word it as a bottom nor top stitch as if there were two different stitches. I would be happy to admit bad communication and clarify, but I think we were just talking past each other.

So OK, I'll keep this thing another day anyway and try it again before giving up and selling it off.

Edited August 29, 2019 by Vinito