How are these corners and edges done?

[kimberlyrose]

I've been asked to reproduce a bag in large qty. All I was given is a sample bag, and a pattern. I have an industrial walking foot machine for sewing leather, but no other machines. I can't quite figure out two things about the sample I was given... 

1. are these round corners rolled edges? If I pull on them a bit, I can see the two layers are not actually sewn together, it seems all the edges are glued, then topstitched, then glued again to be a finished piece. 

2. How are the edges of the straps coated? Is this leather paint? 

Any advice is greatly appreciated!

Here are the strap edges.

[blue duck]

I appears that the edges on the bag are rolled. The rolled over edge may not be long enough to have caught in the stitching and/or the stitching is not close enough to the edge. It could also be, as you say, each piece turned and stitched then glued. If that is the case, this is a serious design/manufacturing flaw as it will come apart in fairly short order. If this is the finished look that the customer wants, you will most certainly need a skiver to get the edges thin enough to turn. Do you know what is on the inside that it was turned over?

As for the strap, it does appear to be painted. You would probably want to look into an option to create a more refined look. There are some good ideas here on the site.

Without being able to see the entire bag, it is hard to tell if you will be able to do the sewing on your machine. It might also be the reason it was glued instead of stitched.

[kimberlyrose]

Inside is a very thin lining. It seems as though the leather is quite thin and stiff as well, but I don't have the actual leather yet, so I can't be sure.  Thanks for the advice! 

[chrisash]

You will need a written contract spelling out what is required and how things should be on the finished item, Many times customers get the finished item and reject it for some dubious reason and you left fighting a law suite

Its just like asking a builder to make you a house, you need all the details and tolerances before they start even down to the colour of the coat locker or design of bathroom taps. the more information you have on whats required the less chance of something going wrong, 

There should also be a paragraph on disputes and how they are handled

Make sure the first few are QC'd by the buyer prior to mass production

Good luck and congratulations on your order

[Matt S]

That bag design is optimised for quick manufacturing in quantity, getting maximum yield per hide (if it is actually leather), multiple specialised machines, die cutters/clicker knives and a lot of non-leather material. Assuming that your sewing machine is suitable for the task you'll probably find difficulty reproducing it without a skiving machine to get the edges crisp and the seams fairly flat. The corners are indeed turned/folded, probably around some sort of filler or stiffener board. Most of these individual operations can be done by hand with some practice. If you were to disassemble the bag you might find that the individual panels were stitched as a final assembly step, rather than before assembly.

The straps are indeed edge painted, which can be done by hand but is a slow process. I like an awl or pencil for applying edge paint.

Do you have any leeway with altering the design or does it have to be an exact copy? Have you negotiated price yet? How many bags are we talking about?

[kimberlyrose]

Thank you everyone. I haven't signed anything yet. I'm in the process of inspecting the bag, seeing if it's a job I can / want to handle, and then making a sample. This sample will then be given for inspection and approval. There IS room for alteration. Qty at this point is unknown, as it's not up for sale until Mid November. But if I want the job, I have to have a sample made within the next 2 weeks, and give a quote. 

I still don't know who made this exact sample I have, but the original design was by a new designer who just got a big contract deal with a TV station to promote their own line. I was told that he may not have designed / made it in the best / most efficient way, and if I have suggestions for making production easier, they are all ears. 

This could be a really great opportunity for me, but if I'm being realistic, I know I don't have the time or resources to replicate it exactly as is. Or I guess I should say, the TV station surely can't sell a large qty of this bag if the price tag is going to reflect a few hours of work for each bag. 

I'm thinking, once they send me the leather, I could maybe even do a sample with all raw edges....?

[blue duck]

As Matt said, there is probably a stiffener of some description. That is what I was referring to when I asked what was inside. Not the liner, but in between the liner and outside leather. 

Should you do all raw edges, you will have even more edge painting to do. If you plan on producing enough bags for a TV sale you will need to come up with a faster application method than doing it by hand. There are machines, but how much do you want to invest in equipment? 

You might look at @RockyAussie he has some production type posts that you may find helpful.

Since you don't know the quantity, even if you can give them a sample of your work, it will be pretty difficult to give them a quote on price or even know if you can produce the amount needed in the given time.

As you say it may be a great opportunity, or it may be a bit more than you want to take on at this point. Good luck.

[mikesc]

That looks like it was done in Asia, and as Matt says may not even be leather, I've seen very similar ( both straps and bag ) done in vinyl ( those straps sure do look like vinyl ). Has the look of some of the fake Pradas that come out of China, not saying it is a copy, but it has all the same "finish" attributes. You are not going to be able to make these in either leather or vinyl, with one sewing machine and apparently not a lot of experience..Brian ( RockyAussie ) could ..I If I were you, I'd pass, before you find yourself in quicksand.

I actually bought one of my industrial machines from someone who had good contacts at Hérmes, she had got a gig where she was going to be sewing non animal leather ( seaweed based plastics ) into small gift sacs for them, around 500 to start..She had only ever used a domestic machine before ( and was not a couturier at all, she just "knew people" ) ..she bought a machine that was completely wrong for the job ( Juki DLU 490-4 ) , had no idea how to get it to run , or stop, let alone reverse. She thought that "the exposure" would be good for her career as "a designer"..Luckily her husband talked her out of it..

I bought the machine, showed her how it runs ( after she had taken my money  and the sale was done ) ..and then she showed me the materials that she was trying to sew, and the design which they had "suggested"..It would only have been possible on a cylinder arm machine, and only if they made the design cylindrical as opposed to cubic.

Designers ( I am a designer, got all the paperwork , degrees etc to say so  ) have a horrible tendency to design things that they actually have no idea how to produce more than one of..And then the people who are experienced on production runs have to "fix" the designs..that can cost much more than the designers think it would, and often means large compromises as to the design..If you are not experienced on production runs of bags as someone like Brian is..pass on it..or like Chris said..it could go very very wrong, and you will get the blame, and maybe sued or face financial penalties..

Don't buy machines just to do this job..and do not get sucked into "working for the glory and the publicity"..they will already know their budget, if they haven't told you, it is because they are hoping to save money by you working for the glory of working for a TV company.

Edited August 29, 2019 by mikesc

[kimberlyrose]

Yes, I am very aware of the pitfalls of this prospect. Which is why I am trying to figure it all out now, before I say yes or no, and not later. Taking this job would not get me any fame or TV exposure, it would only be for the cash. I only mentioned the TV, because they are the ones who have the final say on $$ to spend on production.

I am still at this point, free to suggest a better way to make the bag, or to say no, or to say yes, but it will take x hours and x dollars. Just wanted to see what the thoughts were on the original sample I was given. Loving all the thoughts and advice!

[mikesc]

Working through someone in the middle ( between you and the people who have the money, and who "decide" ) is a way to potentially waste a great deal of your time..

That said..the only way you'll know how it was made ( and with what, techniques and material  ) is to take it apart completely..if they have not said that you can do that..( I wouldn't touch the job if I could not, wouldn't even waste time working up a quote* ) How are you going to quote for making it..unless all they want is "the overall look"..if that is the case..make it in vinyl..all of it..The "finish" is similar to Chevre, with the "pebble finish" of some of the Hérmes Chevre that I have..that can be either genuine Chevre, ( can be a little awkward to work, but not terribly so ) or vinyl..some very good vinyl fakes of Hérmes and Prada items with that finish, they fool the public, but not anyone who works with leather regularly.If you suggest alterations to the design, and they are accepted, you still have to know how you would make it..

Seriously..if you need to ask on a forum ( which has only a few pro leatherworkers, and even fewer pro bag / sac producers ) , how it is made, then you really ( in my opinion ) are already well out of your depth and level of experience and should not be thinking of getting involved.

* First rule of quoting for production of someone else's design, is "is there a sample, if so, it will have to be taken apart to see how it was  made, a pattern is not enough".."and how much is your budget, both per item and overall for how many items"

"it seems"..is  a dangerous place to be..that should be "it is"..

And with only one machine..

there is not a ruefully shaking of head emoji..

[robs456]

On 8/29/2019 at 4:04 PM, kimberlyrose said:

2. How are the edges of the straps coated? Is this leather paint? 

Great advice from the others above, all I have to add is that if you have to ask the question quoted then you shouldn't take the order. Not yet at least.