Using granite for Scouts

[dprezgay]

I have not done a lot of leatherworking in my life.  It turns out I am mostly a hoarder (collector?) of tools than a user.  I mostly work with Cub Scouts at day camps and Boy Scouts as a Merit Badge Councellor for Leatherwork.  So most of the stamping I do is just to demonstrate the different types of stamps before I turn them loose.

Last weekend I did a couple of LW  Merit Badges classes for about 35 Scouts.  There was an Eagle Scout in attendance that reminded me of myself.  He wanted everything perfect and was afraid to do anything until he was sure it was going to look good.  He wanted this one 3d stamp on his project.  It was one of the larger stamps but no matter what we did we couldn't get a good impression.  I used a 3lb mallet on it to no avail.  He was frustrated, but I was more so.  Due to cost, and weight, we do not have granite slabs.  After all, lifting 20 of them into a car and hauling them across a field on a dolly is impossible for most of the counselors.   We use only 6x6 poundo boards and wooden mallets on usually portable tables.  Not a recipe for crisp stamping.  When I did do some stamping, it was on my kitchen table with a 12"x12" slab of quartz or granite from Tandy.  Which is usually what most of us start out with.  But even using those slabs, some of the more detailed stamps didn't come out so good.

A couple years ago, I started setting up a section in my garage for do leatherwork, but have never been able to keep it clear enough to get to the workbench.  I even bought a piece of granite (called a surface plate) 12"x18"x3" thick.  The shipping on it was twice the cost of the granite but luckily I was going to pass by the sellers shop on a short trip I was taking to LA for another reason.  So lucky me.

In my effort to stock out local BSA Council with a number of LW tool sets, I listed some of the more expensive stamps on ebay so I could buy a bunch of tools for the Scouts.  Someone requested I stamp them on leather so they could see the impressions before they buy.  I didn't know where my Tandy slabs were, but I could barely get to the corner of the workbench where I set the surface plate 2 years ago.  Wow, what a difference.  The impression was so detailed it was like the ones I see in the You Tube videos I always watch.  So I did some tests on different thicknesses of leather scraps and they all looked fantastic.  

This has inspired me to get that area clear so I can do some of the projects I bought but never started.

But it got me thinking.  If the Scouts were able to get close to that type of experience, would it inspire some of them to continue with LW?  I think so.  I know I'm willing to haul 20 slabs of granite around, but other MB Counselors wouldn't.  So I now have a conundrum.  What can I do?

These are the options I came up with:

1 - I'm going to try to get some free granite scraps (about 3/4" thick) from a countertop business and test them out with the tables we use.  If that works, great.  I will try to get them cut to a good size for free (ha ha) and that will be great.

2 - I saw an article in a magazine about building a portable stamping surface.  It was a granite tile glued to a piece of plywood and a poundo board glued on the other side.  The advantage is that it is a lot lighter than a thick slab since the tiles are only about 3/8" - 1/2" thick

3 - Buy the slabs from Tandy.  They sell a 6"x6"x1.25" thick size that may work.

4 - I found some small granite surface plates on Amazon that may work for us.  They are 6"x8"x2" thick and according to the description, are around 10lbs each.  They run around 25.00 with about 10.00 shipping.  But when I put 20 in the cart, total shipping was 24.00 total.  Wow, that's just over 1.00 each.  

Obviously, option 1 would be best due to cost.  But I don't know if 3/4" is going to be enough due to the abuse that the kids would put it through.  I'm afraid they would break and need to be replaced often.  Even thought they are close to free, it would be a hassle.

The same problem with option 2.  I think this portable stamping surface was mainly designed for attending LW seminars, learning new figure carving techniques, and not the pounding they would get with Scouts.

Option 3 has the advantage of being the most used in leathercraft but the 12"x12"x1.25" slabs are heavy and cost around 35.00 each.  The 6"x6: is around 18.00 and would be 1/4th the weight.

I like option 4 because it cost less than the 12"x12" from tandy and weight about half as much. 

Now, here's the rub.  Our local BSA Council has 5 sets of tools. 4 for up 20 Scouts each and 1 for up to 40 kids.  (They actually don't have enough leather tools to cover all 5 sets but I'm working on it.) 

So, based on cost alone it's never going to happen.  Plus no other LW Merit Badge Counselors would want to do it.   So why am I even thinking about it?   I guess it's because I want to give the Scouts the best experience I can.  And, maybe, inspire them to take up LW as a hobby.  After all, the reason I decided to start buying tools and getting into LW was because of the positive experience I had at some Boy Scout Summer Camp 40 years ago when I did the Merit Badge.

Anyone have any ideas (options) for me or recommend some medication that prevent me from coming up with these "impossible" ideas?

 

Dale

 

 

 

[fredk]

Its the hard surface you need. Try steel plate. 3mm thick by 6" square.

I have a round block of steel I used to use as a portable anvil. Its about 4" diameter by 3" deep. Not only was it good for setting ready-rivets but I could do stamp impressions on it too.

Many will tell you, not to put wet leather in touch with iron/steel but for the few minutes that the scouts need there'll be no problems, or to make your mind easy, paint the surface of the steel plate

 

[Rockoboy]

If I read your post correctly, the cost of the granite would appear to be the least of your problems. Not only do you appear to have a line on good suppliers at good prices, but you do not appear to have investigated kitchen fit-out companies, who might supply for free rather than them paying to have it taken away. I have only ever broken one piece of 3/4" granite, and I was really "giving it" to a large stamp with a 2lb copper-faced hammer. Therefore, I think you should have no trouble with the less expensive granite. On the other hand ... the steel option as mentioned by @fredk is well worth considering. The rigidity of the tables might be a problem for optimal performance, but it should get you by IMHO.

[Sheilajeanne]

I use a polished granite floor tile for tooling. It weighs a fraction of those Tandy slabs, and gives me a good tooling surface. I think the idea of the poundo boards on one side, and a granite tile on the other would work well, and be fairly easy to transport. The tiles are also much cheaper to buy!

 

Edit: just looked up these tiles on the Home Depot website. They are about $5-6 bucks Canadian for a 1 foot square tile, or $7.20 for an 18 x 18" tile. I've had mine for about 5 years now, and it's never cracked or chipped, even though I've dropped it a few times.   https://www.homedepot.com/b/Flooring-Tile-Natural-Stone-Tile-Granite-Tile/N-5yc1vZasju

Edited September 2, 2019 by Sheilajeanne

[Rockoboy]

7 minutes ago, Sheilajeanne said:

They are about $5-6 bucks Canadian per tile

Depending on the size of the tile, (in Australia we have some that are 12"x12" and some the are 12"x24"), the could be cut into 2 or 4 pieces. Most projects only need 6"x10" maybe 8"x12" so the stamping is supported by the hard surface.

[fredk]

to put my idea in action.

I used a detailed 3D stamp. On 2.2mm veg tan [about 5-6 oz?]

On the left, stamped on my block of marble, on the right, stamped on 3mm steel plate

No real difference, only slightly due to me and how hard I whacked the handle. I use the real big handle and 'walked' the stamp in different directions to get the edges nicely done.

Now, by comparison : my marble block is about 4" x 8" x 1.25" thick, it weighs 1.6Kg. The 3" square steel plate is 3mm thick and weighs 128g, so x4 for a 6" square is 512g. A 1/3 of the marble block, The 3mm plate can be stored and carried easier. 

For the scouts a piece of plate 3"x 6" would be plenty, that makes it 256g. or  x 20 = 5.12Kg

Plus, you can go to just about any builders suppliers and get the steel plate, cut to size too, for far less cost and easier to get than granite/marble blocks in quantity.

Only down-side: the edges and corners of the steel plate will need smoothing, on either a double-wheel sander or with a sanding disc on an angle grinder or something

Price wise, I paid 75p [about 90c] for the 3" square, about £1.50 [about $1.80] for a piece 8" square and I think the prices will be by far cheaper in the US

[Scoutmom103]

You might try some counter top manufacturers.  The sink cut's out are usually smaller.   Sometimes when they cut off edges they are a few inches wide and various lengths and are free scraps.  They don't have perfect sides but I find they work well for stamping, etc. in leather working and don't weigh as much.  Might be something you could find and the weight wouldn't be to heavy for the two wheeled camp carts for hauling to the area you are working in from the parking lot.

 

 

[SilverForgeStudio]

A lot of good suggestions here!

My personal vote is for looking into a piece of backsplash material- these are 4-5 inches tall, and 1/2 to 3/4 inch thick and usually square edged. broken pieces are easily available. Most projects are small in the BSA and dont require large/wide surfaces- these can be made inset into plywood and easily stacked for transport.

Where you strike ON THE BENCH may as well be a factor- near a leg, or over a stringer or joint has more mass UNDER the strike- the table does not flex/absorb as much of the energy.  I have seen folks just move closer to the edge of the surface over the side stringer and it improve their stamping.

Sink cutouts are what Rockoboy are referring to and these are free to me in this area- as the countertop guys have to pay by weight for their trash haul out. Another option is Headstone makers for the funeral homes. they often have broken pieces or mispelled items that are waste.

Your plight is not in the WIDTH of the face front to back- its the THICKNESS (top to bottom) of the plate that provides the solid "rebound" to effectively stamp the leather. Same concept in anvils for blacksmithing... 

 

 

[dprezgay]

Thanks for the feedback.  I'm going to test some of these ideas and I'll post my results.

Keep the ideas coming.

 

Dale

[dprezgay]

Moderator

Please close this post.

Thanks,

Dale

[Northmount]

1 hour ago, dprezgay said:

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