Flat versus Curved for Pancake holster

[Josh Ashman]

1 hour ago, JLSleather said:

 

Meanwhile, I absolutely recommend a flat-ish holster.  But ESPECIALLY IN THE CASE of those who really want to know (not just try appear to know) I recommend making BOTH.  For the same gun, from the same materials.  Then ya know.

Sticking to the discussion on holster styles and skipping the rest, I completely agree with Jeff's comments above. Clearly the OP has carried for some time and is familiar with what he wants. Build both and see which you like best. 

I took a few pictures of some of my older pancake style holsters that have been used a bunch. All for 1911 type pistols in Officers Model, Commander Model and Government Model lengths. You can see in the pics they are all used. The OM is about 80/20 flat, the CM probably about 60/40 flat and the GM is 50/50. I can't tell the difference in comfort or retention, but clearly other people can. It's not much more difficult to build one style over the other, mostly some modest adjustments in process and you can build either. 

Just for grins I included pics of the OM and GM with a belt through them wrapped around an empty bucket. The flatter one does sit closer to the bucket, which in turn would mean it sits closer to your body while wearing it. But to me it's such a minute amount that it simply doesn't matter. Again, everybody is different and something that doesn't make a difference to me might make a huge difference to somebody else. FYI, I wear at 3:00 maybe if I wore a holster further back it'd make more difference? 

Thank goodness we're not discussing politics or religion, huh?

Have a great day folks, 

Josh

[chuck123wapati]

22 hours ago, JLSleather said:

My name isn't JL (or Billy Bob) and

that's not what i said (not even close) and

a guy I don't know coming at me at that speed will be perceived as a threat and treated as one.  Has never happened.  Maybe won't ever happen.

Wrong. Twice.

This shows the FASTEST of them cranking at 4.3 seconds.  And that's professional athletes. Most you meet "on the street" would likely drop from coronary disease before they got that far.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nutDiLADWuY

BUT.... all this having nothing to do with leatherwork or the guy's orginal question, so let me tie back in by offering this time-honored tip:  ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS check to be sure you put the lid on the glue jar.  No shame double checking.

still didn't try it, opinion means nothing! You're a great leather worker I admit but very arrogant and sarcastic with your comments so I'll concede you're the man and always right. Sorry I don't know your name but only initials.  

[Northmount]

29 minutes ago, chuck123wapati said:

still didn't try it, opinion means nothing! You're a great leather worker I admit but very arrogant and sarcastic with your comments so I'll concede you're the man and always right. Sorry I don't know your name but only initials.  

Time to cool it fellows.

Tom

[chuck123wapati]

9 hours ago, bcraig said:

When I asked about the difference between the flat backed pancake and curved back pancake part of the question asked about retention but I was referring to any difference between the two holsters and not whether a pancake holster with a strap was better than a pancake holster without a strap.

Seeing how this thread has drifted from its original intent I will play along.

I have carried for over 40 years and have used a variety of pistols and revolvers along with a variety of holsters(Strongside owb,strong side iwb,crossdraw,shoulder ,pocket Holster,in the pocket with no holster and stuck in the waistband at about 4 oclock.

For instance out on a tractor or 3 or 4 wheeler or horse I want a holster with a retaining strap and the holster mostly being some type of owb with a retaining strap as I don't want to the handgun to come out of the holster .

When carrying concealed (and I do everyday whether at home or out)I just want a holster that when going about my normal activity(Getting in and out of my pickup,sitting on the couch,mowing the yard,going to the grocery store etc)keeps my handgun secure .
I also carry a New York Reload.

The Military using a retaining strap or a tension adjuster on their holsters do so because of anticipated vigorous activity much as an outdoors man or someone working on a farm might.
Law enforcement might do the same because they might have someone try to take their handgun.And if they have someone try to take their handgun (which more than likely will be visible and that is why they are trying to take it)a retaining strap or a pure retention holster would be a good idea.
Also if they are trained to do so they can take your handgun right off your belt ,holster and all .
I do not carry in the open ever and therefore am not worried about someone trying to take my handgun.

I have been shooting handguns since I was 10 years old and have never heard the term Full Draw used concerning anything other than Archery.
I was practicing the Speed Rock 45 years ago 

John Wayne was a very good actor and don't know what he might have recommended as far as shooting goes but that has no importance.

To say that a cop nor anyone else should try and outdraw anyone who is too close means what?
What is too close? What does outdraw mean?
Is too close 3 ft,5 ft,10ft or 30ft?
Does outdraw mean drawing your gun while someone is pointing a gun at you?if so ,would you not want to at least try to survive instead of just standing there and getting shot?
Do you mean they have told you that they are going to kill you and you believe they actually are going to try ?then do your best to stop them whatever the means.
Does outdraw mean that they are reaching for a gun ? if so then draw yours first if you can and start shooting.
The what ifs are never ending.

Also keep in mind that although nobody wants to be shot ,in real life being shot does not mean that you are dead or stopped.
And the same goes for a thug that you might have to shoot.
People do not get blown across a room or flung through a window or even fall down by a gunshot ,only in the movies.

Either have or develop a survivors mindset and let no thug take your life from you or your Family.

 

In this case outdraw would mean to react to the threat coming, perceive them as a real danger, pull your weapon aim and fire before the "thug" runs ten yards and grabs your gun hand or just tackles you to the ground. I also have carried many years but until recently I have had to realize I didn't really know how far was "to close" for me. I also have been in law enforcement for many years in corrections and trained to react to many unknown threats and it also allowed me to have actually talked to convicted felons, you're right they don't want to be shot so will make sure you don't have that advantage plain and simple. What most people don't want to realize is they still have a reaction time to overcome as well as mental issues with actually killing someone no matter how much they say they can it always affects reaction time, as you know also you could go to prison if you,re not correct in your split second decision. Your families life and happiness depends on much more than you just shooting some thug  that wants your wallet you wont just go home afterwards and carry on, that small thought gives the thug the upper hand. My question to you then is how close is to close for you, DO you actually know, practicing speed loading a weapon is great but you have to get to that point first with a person trying to keep you from it. Anyway I'm way off topic so I'll leave you folks with your own opinions about personal safety.

[chuck123wapati]

10 hours ago, bcraig said:

When I asked about the difference between the flat backed pancake and curved back pancake part of the question asked about retention but I was referring to any difference between the two holsters and not whether a pancake holster with a strap was better than a pancake holster without a strap.

Seeing how this thread has drifted from its original intent I will play along.

I have carried for over 40 years and have used a variety of pistols and revolvers along with a variety of holsters(Strongside owb,strong side iwb,crossdraw,shoulder ,pocket Holster,in the pocket with no holster and stuck in the waistband at about 4 oclock.

For instance out on a tractor or 3 or 4 wheeler or horse I want a holster with a retaining strap and the holster mostly being some type of owb with a retaining strap as I don't want to the handgun to come out of the holster .

When carrying concealed (and I do everyday whether at home or out)I just want a holster that when going about my normal activity(Getting in and out of my pickup,sitting on the couch,mowing the yard,going to the grocery store etc)keeps my handgun secure .
I also carry a New York Reload.

The Military using a retaining strap or a tension adjuster on their holsters do so because of anticipated vigorous activity much as an outdoors man or someone working on a farm might.
Law enforcement might do the same because they might have someone try to take their handgun.And if they have someone try to take their handgun (which more than likely will be visible and that is why they are trying to take it)a retaining strap or a pure retention holster would be a good idea.
Also if they are trained to do so they can take your handgun right off your belt ,holster and all .
I do not carry in the open ever and therefore am not worried about someone trying to take my handgun.

I have been shooting handguns since I was 10 years old and have never heard the term Full Draw used concerning anything other than Archery.
I was practicing the Speed Rock 45 years ago 

John Wayne was a very good actor and don't know what he might have recommended as far as shooting goes but that has no importance.

To say that a cop nor anyone else should try and outdraw anyone who is too close means what?
What is too close? What does outdraw mean?
Is too close 3 ft,5 ft,10ft or 30ft?
Does outdraw mean drawing your gun while someone is pointing a gun at you?if so ,would you not want to at least try to survive instead of just standing there and getting shot?
Do you mean they have told you that they are going to kill you and you believe they actually are going to try ?then do your best to stop them whatever the means.
Does outdraw mean that they are reaching for a gun ? if so then draw yours first if you can and start shooting.
The what ifs are never ending.

Also keep in mind that although nobody wants to be shot ,in real life being shot does not mean that you are dead or stopped.
And the same goes for a thug that you might have to shoot.
People do not get blown across a room or flung through a window or even fall down by a gunshot ,only in the movies.

Either have or develop a survivors mindset and let no thug take your life from you or your Family.

 

l'll leave you with this info.  http://www.theppsc.org/Staff_Views/Tueller/How.Close.htm 

[JLSleather]

4 hours ago, Josh Ashman said:

You can see in the pics they are all used.

Looks like you definitely got some mileage outta them there rigs 

[Josh Ashman]

22 minutes ago, JLSleather said:

Looks like you definitely got some mileage outta them there rigs 

Cheers Jeff! Hopefully it's cooled off enough a guy can get out and go fishing up north. Still too hot down here! 

[JLSleather]

Temp is okay, but we got no water!  I could wade my favorite fishin' river clean across without gittin 'm belt wet I think -  been WAY too dry around here.  Had some storms to the north starting to bring it up a bit but more woudn't hurt.  Supposed to rain next three days, that might get out out n about ...

Bass will bite when it's warm, but when my grill is empty I want pike and walleye - definitely colder water fish.  MN the lakes were deeper, guy could git down in there for cold water most of the year. 'Course, there was all them democrats to wade through ...

 

[wayner]

Hey Jeff

  if your wading through Democrats I hope your wearing hip waders? You wouldn't want to ruin your clothes or shoes

[bcraig]

What size and brand of Harness needles and thread would be good for Hand sewing these holsters ?

[bcraig]

On 9/18/2019 at 10:38 AM, chuck123wapati said:

In this case outdraw would mean to react to the threat coming, perceive them as a real danger, pull your weapon aim and fire before the "thug" runs ten yards and grabs your gun hand or just tackles you to the ground. I also have carried many years but until recently I have had to realize I didn't really know how far was "to close" for me. I also have been in law enforcement for many years in corrections and trained to react to many unknown threats and it also allowed me to have actually talked to convicted felons, you're right they don't want to be shot so will make sure you don't have that advantage plain and simple. What most people don't want to realize is they still have a reaction time to overcome as well as mental issues with actually killing someone no matter how much they say they can it always affects reaction time, as you know also you could go to prison if you,re not correct in your split second decision. Your families life and happiness depends on much more than you just shooting some thug  that wants your wallet you wont just go home afterwards and carry on, that small thought gives the thug the upper hand. My question to you then is how close is to close for you, DO you actually know, practicing speed loading a weapon is great but you have to get to that point first with a person trying to keep you from it. Anyway I'm way off topic so I'll leave you folks with your own opinions about personal safety.

Concealed carry prevents them from seeing the handgun and therefore thy are not likely to try and take something they cant see.
The statement about the wallet is almost absurd..
First if they are trying to steal your wallet then they are taking from you and your families wellbeing and survival.
Second is there is all kinds of information typically in a wallet that can be used to financially and physically harm you and your family.
And third how do you know they wont try to harm you or kill you once you hand over a wallet?

How close is too close
Depends on the situation 
In a crowded store where there is no aggressive behavior that I have observed people would be allowed to get closer to me than they would be allowed to get  closer than if they were Brandishing  a gun or a knife.
If someone is threating me or my family with a knife At 50 yards obviously that is a different threat level than the same scenario at 10 to 15 yards.
Personally ,If I could stop the threat at 15 yards or more I would because of reaction time.
My secondary concerns to the a potential situation that I have to try and stop a thug from harming myself or family are just that,secondary.
My FIRST responsibility is to protect myself and My Family from being Hurt,Maimed or Killed.

The old cliché is"I would rather be Judged by 12 than carried by six"


I have said there are too many variables and IFS to cover every scenario.

Then you ask if I actually know practicing speed loading a weapon is great but you have to get to that point first with a person trying to keep you from it 
Do you actually know what the terminology New York Reload refers to ?
For educational purpose https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/New_York_reload

Do you actually know what a speed Rock is ,why it is used and how to do it?
For educational Purposes 

 

Edited September 19, 2019 by bcraig

[Northmount]

Discussion closed.  It has strayed way beyond the OP's question and you guys won't let your personal opinions go.

Tom