Pit Tan Steer Hide

[Forester]

Hi All

To all leatherworkers in the UK, does anyone know where I can buy Pit Tan Steer Hide from in the UK. I need a good quality 9-10 oz for making holsters. Thanks in advance for any pointers.

Regards Forester

[Matt S]

The only pit tannery still going in the UK (and the only one on the European continetal plate) is I believe, Bakers of Colyton. Wonderful leather at reasonable prices but not cheap cheap. Ask them for a russet shoulder (oak bark if they have it).

Do you want/need pit tanned specifically because of some property of that type of tanning (rather than drumming, which is the modern method of veg tanning), or for some authenticity/period correctness reason? If not I would suggest a good, inexpensive tooling shoulder from any of the usual supliers such as Le Prevo, JT Bachelor, Identity Store, Metropolitan Leathers etc. Abbey England is selling Sedgwick tooling shoulders for £40+VAT that have had good things said about them, as they should for Sedgwick leather.

[Forester]

Hello Matt S

Thank you so much for the information, at present I get my leather from Metropolitan Leather, which is really good quality, I have no complaints, but they don't go up to the thickness I want. I want a good supplier that can provide a constant 10 oz thickness for Western style holsters that I make. I have made holsters in the past and they just don't look thick enough, may be the American leatherworkers could advise what thickness original Western gun leather was, or did they just use what leather they could get their hands on.

Regards Forester

[Forester]

Hello Matt S

What about medium weight skirting leather, any ideas?

Regards Forester

[Matt S]

35 minutes ago, Forester said:

Thank you so much for the information, at present I get my leather from Metropolitan Leather, which is really good quality, I have no complaints, but they don't go up to the thickness I want. I want a good supplier that can provide a constant 10 oz thickness for Western style holsters that I make. I have made holsters in the past and they just don't look thick enough, may be the American leatherworkers could advise what thickness original Western gun leather was, or did they just use what leather they could get their hands on.

Forester,

You're very welcome.

At that sort of thickness you'll be near the top end of what's commonly available in the UK for tooling leather. I don't know if it's a matter of changing uses/tastes over the years, or a change in animal husbandry or both but many suppliers top out around 3mm these days, as I'm sure you've found out. That's one of the advantages of going to somewhere like Baker's, as they have a very wide range (even wider than they advertise), and will pick you out a skin as close to your requirements as they can find. They will also split a heavier hide down to 4mm if you like, though of course you'll have an unfinished back on that piece. In fact if they can't find you one to match your requirements they'll tan you one specially, though that can take 14 months from order to delivery...

Le Prevo offer some Italian russet tooling leather up to 4mm thickness though you have to buy an entire butt, which makes for a lot of holsters and belts. Again an email or phone call to them might get what you're after (I assume you're after a shoulder as the grain lends itself a little better to holsters than a butt, there's fewer SQFT to buy and the price per SQFT tends to be lower.)

You've probably noticed that leathers are typically quoted in a thickness range e.g. 3.5-4.0mm. This is because there is some variation in accuracy of the splitting machines used today to level the hides to a certain thickness. This is unavoidable but is far more accurate than holster makers would have had in the 19th century -- in those days splitters were brand new technology and I expect far less accurate or consistent than today. It was common for tanneries to sell hides unlevelled, with different parts of the same hide at different thicknesses. It was left to the individual craftsmen to shave it down to the desired thicknesses.

I believe that a lot of modern makers of Western holsters line them to get up to the desired thickness. This gives a far smoother, finished inside surface as well as making it easier to source leather. However as to period correctness you'll have to do some research. Will Ghormley is probably a good starting point, and if you can find one for a reasonable price a copy of the book Packing Iron.

Out of pure nosy curiosity, are you making these holsters for shooting (British Western Shooting Assoc), filming, reenactment or just personal interest?
 

2 minutes ago, Forester said:

What about medium weight skirting leather, any ideas?

That's a term from Western saddlers not used in English saddlery (the skirts on an English saddle are very different to the skirts on a Western saddle!). The only time I've seen skirting leather advertised in the UK was Tandy, which no longer has a UK outlet.

[Forester]

Hello Matt S

Thank you for the time you spent on above message. I have always loved cowboy films and guns so I bought myself a replica Colt .45, then I started looking for a holster and belt, then saw that not many people in the UK make them and would have to buy from the USA, then saw the price and postage, then thought I can do that, then a few thousand pounds worth of tools later and a lot of looking at You Tube, I make my own, and now I am selling gun rigs in the USA, Switzerland, Germany, France, Japan and a few other places. I like to make period correct pieces and rigs from movies such as the Magnificent Seven. I have the book Packing Iron and nearly every pattern pack of the great Will Ghormley. I do line some of my holsters but it makes them really hard to bend into a Mexican Loop holster, that's why i'm looking for thicker leather. Attached is a picture of 2 holsters from Will Ghormley's pattern packs, not yet finished, the left is a John Wayne Holster and the right is the Hand of God Holster, from 3-10 To Yuma. The Hand of God Holster along with a belt has been bought by a customer in Nashville USA. So its just the leather I have to source, I used to get all my leather and hardware from Tandy, so looking for buckles and conchos has been a pain. You also seem very  knowledgeable about leather, are you a leatherworker?

Regards Forester

 

[jcuk]

Hello,

Metropolitan natural tooling butts go up to 5mm which is between 12/13oz and the 3.5/4mm is about the weight you are looking for .

 

https://www.tandyleather.com/en/leather-buying-guide.html

 

Hope this helps

JCUK

[Forester]

Thank you, will have a look!

 

[chrisash]

Have you considerd Sole leather at http://thomasware.co.uk/our-products/tanned-sole-leather/

[Forester]

Thank you will check it out.

[Matt S]

2 hours ago, chrisash said:

Have you considerd Sole leather at http://thomasware.co.uk/our-products/tanned-sole-leather/

Soling is very stiff, too stiff to bend much at all and very difficult to cut. Not only are specially stiff hides selected for its manufacture but the stuff is compressed and pressed during processing. I've not tried but imagine it would be near impossible to carve/tool in the normal manner.

[Matt S]

8 hours ago, Forester said:

Hello Matt S

Thank you for the time you spent on above message. I have always loved cowboy films and guns so I bought myself a replica Colt .45, then I started looking for a holster and belt, then saw that not many people in the UK make them and would have to buy from the USA, then saw the price and postage, then thought I can do that, then a few thousand pounds worth of tools later and a lot of looking at You Tube, I make my own, and now I am selling gun rigs in the USA, Switzerland, Germany, France, Japan and a few other places. I like to make period correct pieces and rigs from movies such as the Magnificent Seven. I have the book Packing Iron and nearly every pattern pack of the great Will Ghormley. I do line some of my holsters but it makes them really hard to bend into a Mexican Loop holster, that's why i'm looking for thicker leather. Attached is a picture of 2 holsters from Will Ghormley's pattern packs, not yet finished, the left is a John Wayne Holster and the right is the Hand of God Holster, from 3-10 To Yuma. The Hand of God Holster along with a belt has been bought by a customer in Nashville USA. So its just the leather I have to source, I used to get all my leather and hardware from Tandy, so looking for buckles and conchos has been a pain. You also seem very  knowledgeable about leather, are you a leatherworker?

Forester, that's some really nice work. Apologies if I was teaching my grandma to suck eggs re. Will Ghormley and Packing Iron! Certainly not my intention. I've got several of Will's pattern packs myself but not yet got around to making much from them, though I do have my last piece of russet shoulder earmarked for a couple of 1911 holsters.

Yep I'm a leatherworker. I mostly make bags, belts, dog collars and things -- mainly from English bridle and pull-up chrome leather.

 

[thefallguy]

15 hours ago, Forester said:

...may be the American leatherworkers could advise what thickness original Western gun leather was, or did they just use what leather they could get their hands on.

Buy yourself a used copy of Bianchi's "Blue Steel & Gunleather" on ebay. It will have the information you are looking for and the general subject matter will probably be of great interest to you as well.

[Forester]

Hello Matt S

Once again thank you for the information. I have made a few 1911 holsters, some from Will Ghormley's pattern packs and same I designed myself.

Regards Forester