Edge Kote rubbing off....solution?

[HondoMan]

Greetings all,

this is getting on me last nerve and somewhere must be a solution.  Fiebings Edge Kote.  A large number of people avoid it and I fully understand why.  I have been at finding a solution to the rub off and cannot for the bloody life of me find one.

I have done all I can think to do and it continues to rub off - days and weeks later. 

I have tried two different techniques at the start aside from sanding and burnishing.  I've used both water and Gum Trag separately of course.  Applying a thin and thicker amounts of Edge Kote to an edge.  Using canvas to burnish and there is little rub off or bleed.  I mean very little.  I can see a very light amount of black or brown in the canvas.  The rub off comes when beeswax is applied.  Scientifically, it does make a wee bit of sence.  The edge kote lays atop the leather (aye, some seeps in) and it dries.  With the wax and burnishing, it heats it and mixes with the beeswax.  There is now a waxy, acrylic mix atop the leather.  I have applied the edge kote and have waited up to 48 hours before applying wax.  Still bleeds or rubs off.  Polishing with a soft cloth and it is filled with rub off that seems endless.

One wold think that Fiebings would know this and make alterations.  Near on everyone waxes the edges.  Using dye on the edge is not always an option.  I often make items that are not dyed, but want to have a brown or black edge.  Dye won't suit as it seeps in. 

Does anyone have a simple solution to the rub off issue.  I've read Bob Parks write up on edge work.  Not what I'm looking for.  I have large bottles of Edge Kote that I'm not tossing in the rubbish.  I'd prefer to find a solution to stop the rub off.

Cheers!

 

[paloma]

Hi,

I have never noticed any problem with this product on vegetable tanned leather,but,but if I were you, I'd try to varnish it once the edge kote is dry, just to see.

[HondoMan]

3 minutes ago, paloma said:

Hi,

I have never noticed any problem with this product on vegetable tanned leather,but,but if I were you, I'd try to varnish it once the edge kote is dry, just to see.

Varnish?  Can you clarify that please?

 

[paloma]

yes,

to neutralize the contamination of the edge kote which is a product in aqueous phase it is possible to apply an acrylic varnish on it. ( mat or glossy )

Edited October 15, 2019 by paloma

[Dwight]

Years ago, HondoMan, . . . I saw your problem.

I gave up on Edge Coat, . . . instead, I went in the "edge dying" direction.

Didn't take long, . . . decided on ending that relationship as well.

Now I just burnish a little harder, . . . using either a Dremel tool, . . . or an electric motor I've outfitted with a burnishing wheel.

It darkens the leather while it polishes it, . . . and I get a really good looking product, . . . without the hassle of doing the edges a separate color.

May God bless,

Dwight

[paloma]

3 minutes ago, Dwight said:

Years ago, HondoMan, . . . I saw your problem.

I gave up on Edge Coat, . . . instead, I went in the "edge dying" direction.

Didn't take long, . . . decided on ending that relationship as well.

Now I just burnish a little harder, . . . using either a Dremel tool, . . . or an electric motor I've outfitted with a burnishing wheel.

It darkens the leather while it polishes it, . . . and I get a really good looking product, . . . without the hassle of doing the edges a separate color. 

May God bless,

Dwight

it's also one of the solutions I use

[HondoMan]

1 hour ago, paloma said:

yes,

to neutralize the contamination of the edge kote which is a product in aqueous phase it is possible to apply an acrylic varnish on it. ( mat or glossy )

Paloma, seems one of us is confused.  This is what I am referring to and what I am using and what rubs off.

Maybe it's me, but it seems you wrote to neutralise the contaminants of the Edge Kote, apply Edge Kote on it.

1 hour ago, Dwight said:

Years ago, HondoMan, . . . I saw your problem.

I gave up on Edge Coat, . . . instead, I went in the "edge dying" direction.

Didn't take long, . . . decided on ending that relationship as well.

Now I just burnish a little harder, . . . using either a Dremel tool, . . . or an electric motor I've outfitted with a burnishing wheel.

It darkens the leather while it polishes it, . . . and I get a really good looking product, . . . without the hassle of doing the edges a separate color.

May God bless,

Dwight

Cheers Dwight.  Done that in the past.  Didn't really care for it.  Aye, if the leather is dyed from the tannery, it works fine.  But often I am dyeing the leather meself and to have a nice dark bag or belt with a lighter coloured edge just doesn't suit.

[paloma]

the varnish, can fix it. the varnish is also an acrylic ( water-base ) component.

Make a test or a sample on a piece of edge leather to see.

[terrymac]

Quit using the gumtrag and  burnishing before applying the edge coat. The edge coat needs to adhere to bare, clean leather. What you are doing would be like waxing a bare piece of wood and then expecting paint to adhere.  I personally don't use Edge Coat as there are other brands I like better. The principles still.apply.  If you are applying more than one coat, then you need to either heat treat or sand between coats

Hope this helps

Terry

[HondoMan]

48 minutes ago, terrymac said:

Quit using the gumtrag and  burnishing before applying the edge coat. The edge coat needs to adhere to bare, clean leather. What you are doing would be like waxing a bare piece of wood and then expecting paint to adhere.  I personally don't use Edge Coat as there are other brands I like better. The principles still.apply.  If you are applying more than one coat, then you need to either heat treat or sand between coats

Hope this helps

Terry

Terrymac, I used the GumTrag once to see if it made a difference.  I sand endlessly, it seems.  Allow me a wee run through here mate.

Leather freshly cut.  Sanded.  A lightly moist edge and burnished.  I'll do that until the edge is free from any fibres.  Then Edge Kote, burnish and sand.  I'll do that about three times, sometimes four.  I increase the grit amount on the sanding bother before and after Edge Kote (400, 600 then 800 - sometimes 1000).  I then run the edge over with a piece of canvas.  Very, very little bleed.  I let leather sit for a minimum of 24 hours.   I then add beeswax to the edge and burnish.  I then go over again with canvas and it bleeds like a stuck pig!

Edited October 15, 2019 by HondoMan

[terrymac]

Burnishing is compressing and sealing the fibers. I don't know for sure if that is contributing to the color..bleed.  I use Vernice and Uniters and have no problem with either.

Terry

[HondoMan]

14 minutes ago, terrymac said:

Burnishing is compressing and sealing the fibers. I don't know for sure if that is contributing to the color..bleed.  I use Vernice and Uniters and have no problem with either.

Terry

I don't think burnishing is causing the issue.  Before the wax is applied I burnish with canvas and only a trace rubs off.  Seems the Edge Kote does it's job well up to that point.  Once I rub a wee amount of beeswax and burnish is when the issue starts.

[particle]

I think part of the issue is Fiebing hasn't done a great job of instructing people on how to properly use their products (their YouTube channel has barely any instructional content). I used Edge Kote years ago - hated it and promptly threw it away. Not sure how long it's been around (probably a while), but I recently bought & tried Fiebing's Edge Dye. I figured since it comes in a bottle with a sponge tip that it'll be easy to apply, and since it's a dye, it's bound to be better than Edge Kote! Boy was I wrong. I think it's just s diluted version of Edge Kote, so it's just another painted-on edge finish.

I may be wrong, but I always assumed Edge Kote was intended to be a final edge finish. Meaning, there should be no need to wax and burnish it (which could damage & remove the coating). An acrylic sealer over the edge is fine and probably a good idea.

[HondoMan]

2 minutes ago, particle said:

I think part of the issue is Fiebing hasn't done a great job of instructing people on how to properly use their products (their YouTube channel has barely any instructional content). I used Edge Kote years ago - hated it and promptly threw it away. Not sure how long it's been around (probably a while), but I recently bought & tried Fiebing's Edge Dye. I figured since it comes in a bottle with a sponge tip that it'll be easy to apply, and since it's a dye, it's bound to be better than Edge Kote! Boy was I wrong. I think it's just s diluted version of Edge Kote, so it's just another painted-on edge finish.

I may be wrong, but I always assumed Edge Kote was intended to be a final edge finish. Meaning, there should be no need to wax and burnish it (which could damage & remove the coating). An acrylic sealer over the edge is fine and probably a good idea.

Aye, you are correct.  The instructions simply state to apply the Edge Kote after the edges are smooth.  Nothing more.  And they offer near no instructional videos. 

[Hildebrand]

I am pretty much a rookie here but the common theme you keep stating is everything is good until you wax it.  Maybe try not waxing and see a few days later if it still rubs off, if not that means there is something in the wax that reacts with the edge coat and makes it soft again. Maybe one of those situations where you have to choose one or the other.  One thing I have started doing to get an even look for the die between the object and the edge is die everything at once when I am finished.

Todd

[wizard of tragacanth]

I never use any products designed for edges, only Gum Trag and Tokonole on belts and holsters, but I have always been on the lookout for a good one, just in case I needed it in the future. I always thought of Edge Kote as the rubbery, semi-gloss paint, that I would see on cheap belts, at cheap stores. It looked like it would eventually wear, or peel off. That was just as guess, as I had never used it. The only two products available at my local Tandy are Edge Kote and Dura Edge. On the Fiebing's website, it has these descriptions...

Edge Kote: Dries water resistant with a flexible, deep semi- gloss.

Dura Edge: Fiebing's Dura Edge is a flexible and highly durable finish that will result in a professional edge every time. No need for burnishing, buffing or other labor intensive processes to get the edge you always desired. Fiebing's Dura Edge dries bright, hard and will not rub off. The convenient wool dauber attached to the cap allows for easy application with minimal mess.

A few days ago, I ran across a Fiebing's product called Burnishing Ink Wax. That one sounded very interesting to me, as I could dye and burnish at the same time. It appeared to be available only in 32oz jugs. I asked my local Tandy and they had no experience or knowledge of this stuff. I searched this forum and found a post saying that it was not a good product.

 

So, I went to the Fiebing's website, and for the first time, discovered their Shoe Care products. Under the Shoe Care products, they have Cobbler Classics. There are a couple of interesting products. However, I could not find any descriptions. I am wondering if any of our Cobblers on this forum could be of assistance here. Perhaps there is a product for sole edges that would work great for us?

 

https://www.fiebing.com/shop/?c=34411/COBBLERCLASSICS

 

nick

 

Edited October 15, 2019 by wizard of tragacanth

[chiefjason]

The only thing I do after edge kote is to apply 2 coats of acrylic sealer.  Mop and glo with water 50/50.  I don't see any bleed, no complaints either.  I'll test it a little more soon.  What I do notice is that it's tacky for a while after sealing so I let it dry 24 hours between coats.  

[HondoMan]

12 hours ago, chiefjason said:

The only thing I do after edge kote is to apply 2 coats of acrylic sealer.  Mop and glo with water 50/50.  I don't see any bleed, no complaints either.  I'll test it a little more soon.  What I do notice is that it's tacky for a while after sealing so I let it dry 24 hours between coats.  

Mop and glo is on offer in Germany, but at 64 Euros, not an inexpensive idea.  But I'm sure I can locate a less costly equivelent.  Cheers!

Edited October 16, 2019 by HondoMan

[wizard of tragacanth]

Mop & Glo is just an acrylic floor polish. Fiebing's Resolene is essentially the same thing. Many people dilute it 50/50. But Mop & Glo is a cheaper alternative here in the U.S. Just look for any acrylic floor polish that you have locally.

nick

[paloma]

13 hours ago, chiefjason said:

The only thing I do after edge kote is to apply 2 coats of acrylic sealer.  Mop and glo with water 50/50.  I don't see any bleed, no complaints either.  I'll test it a little more soon.  What I do notice is that it's tacky for a while after sealing so I let it dry 24 hours between coats.  

that's exactly what I meant earlier. Maybe the word "varnish" is not correct.

Edited October 16, 2019 by paloma

[HondoMan]

Solution found.  Hate to admit it, but I had a bottle here in the shop and forgot it.    Tested it on a piece and there is no rub off, no bleed!  Solution in hand!  Cheers!

[paloma]

[HondoMan]

Ok, back on this topic.... sorry.  This is driving me mad!

I have on hand and have been experimenting with...Fiebings Edge Kote, Tokonole and Eco Flo Edge Flex (Fenice ?).  While I have yet to find a solution, the problem seems to lay with using wax.  Allow me to explain.

Fiebings:  Dyeing the edge, allowing to dry, there is little to no rub off of colour.  Once I use beeswax on the edge, the colour rubs off on a cloth and won't stop, no matter how long I wait.

Edge Flex:  I have found this to be utter expensive shite!   It just peels off like silicone.  Rubbish!

Tokonole:  I have only the clear (or white version).  I have deyed the edges and allowed time to dry.  Minimum of one full day.  No rub off of colour.  Once I apply wax to the edge, the colour rubs off.

I cannot for the life of me figure out what I am missing.  I thought it might have had to do with burnishing, but not the case.  I sand lightly before I dye or apply an edge coat or paint, so I know it is seeping into the leather.

I have tried using the glycerine bar and not.  I have waited days between steps, using and not using canvas, etc.

Can anyone provide a solution to this?  I truly do not understand what I am doing wrong or missing.  I use only vegtan, bridle and harness leather. 

Cheers and have a nice weekend!

Edited January 10, 2020 by HondoMan

[chiefjason]

I ditched edge coat after having it come off a couple spots.  

So back to my old routine with a bit of an addition. 

Dye the edge.  I use Feibings Pro Oil Black.

Burnish with Tokonole.  I love this stuff BTW.  

Apply a beeswax mix to fill in any small imperfections in the edge that did not burnish.  

Two coats of acrylic finish.  I have a couple holsters on the table with a single coat of finish from tonight.  Black edges.  No rub off.  

It sounds like you are testing the edges without adding a finish and expecting the color to hold.  If that's the case you need some type of finish to seal them.  

[HondoMan]

Cheers!  Are you using resolene as a finish coat on the edges?