Restoration for Juki LU-562 & upgrade to LU-563 Bobbin

[Vinito]

I have a post about me picking up an LU-562 a while back. The cleanup is turning out pretty good so I thought I'd put its own post for the restoration effort. Thus far it's cleaned up and a coat of paint and I guess it looks unique now. Main thin is it looks much better and should be a gem (from my perspective) when I'm done.

I've looked into it and picked up a few parts so I can upgrade the bobbin too. For those who don't know, the difference between the Juki 562 and 563 is the 563 has a much larger bobbin. I picked this unit up really cheap so the cost of some parts to upgrade to the large bobbin is not prohibitive. If you have more into yours already, you'll have to determine for yourself if the cost of parts for the upgrade is worth it to you. I'll be getting more into the bobbin upgrade once I get to the point of assembling that area of the machine.

So picture 1 is as it was when I got it home. I could hand turn it, but it wasn't exactly "loose" and holy cow, there was so much lint & oil built up I don't know how it even got itself that bad. By this time, the oil had turned to tar, so yeah, it was precious. Just a bit of cleaning and scrubbing though and it was starting to come around. There are 4 shoeboxes of nice, clean and oiled parts now. They'll show up later

looking like an empty shell.

A bit of sanding...

Then primer...

And like it or not, I went with some gold hammered finish paint. If nothing else, it makes it somewhat unique.

More to come.

[Pintodeluxe]

It looks like a Pfaff with that gold paint! 

You're in for a big job converting it to a 563.  It might just be easier to start with a 563.  That big U style bobbin is nice though.  

[dikman]

I'm not sure if I like the colour or not, but you did a great job on the painting.

[Vinito]

10 hours ago, dikman said:

I'm not sure if I like the colour or not, but you did a great job on the painting.

I ain't so sure about the color either, but I figger it ain't gonna matter fer squirt once it just starts getting used and the color will just be forgotten eventually anyways. It's shiny & smooth now though and that will kinda make the sewing seem nicer.

 

11 hours ago, Pintodeluxe said:

You're in for a big job converting it to a 563.  It might just be easier to start with a 563.

... uhh... and then what? I would imagine the hard part is what I've already done, taking it all apart and the subsequent putting back together.

I couldn't find for sale the lower bronze bushing for the hook (in the saddle) so I'll just machine one myself, but it's just a bushing so that's pretty basic. Otherwise, it's mostly a matter of reassembly with different parts than what came out. If I'm mistaken, feel free to let me know and help me save some time.

Today is decal day. I printed up some waterslide laser "JUKI" decal since I had some and it's gettin' stuck on there later. After that I guess it'll need a bit of clear to seal the decal, then the painting is finally finished. It'll be interesting to see if I can remember how this thing goes back together again and figure out the rest.

[CastleLeatherWorks]

Looks great cant wait to see it reassembled !!

[Vinito]

Just a small special touch, in tribute...

well in that case, should I have made a nod to Singer instead? Oh well.

[JJN]

I like the color and the paint job. That should be a great machine when it is done. Give the paint some time to cure and it will be a nice finish to work on. I watched the video in the earlier post and that 562-563 conversion doesn't look too difficult. I think for you it is a no-brainer to do the conversion since the machine is already disassembled. I have an older 562 and just picked up a 'new old stock' 563 that is still in the factory packaging. I was going to sell off the 562 but you are inspiring me to do the conversion to the 'U' size bobbin too. I see a 'factory' hook assembly on ebay for 80 bucks. I think having both machines here will be helpful. Let me know if you need any measurements from a factory fresh machine.

[Vinito]

Thanks JJN. I might hit you up for some reference between the two bobbins parts if it's possible for you.

I already know that I don't know if there's a difference in the "bobbin case opening lever crank" (B1822-051-000 vs. B1822-563-000) other than a bit of clearance (for the larger hook) off the corner where the opening lever clamps on. Maybe it's identical (enough) otherwise?

Also I wouldn't mind having full dimensions of the 563 lower bushing for the hook shaft (in the saddle) just because it's easier to just make something from dimensions rather than try to "engineer" it beforehand. But measuring all that is 1) a bit difficult if you don't already have some experience and tools to do it and 2) difficult anyway unless it's disassembled, so prolly not worth it unless you're in there for some other reason anyway. Maybe just a couple clear, close photos showing how it all fits together would be helpful enough? Either way, if measuring doesn't happen, I should be able to figure it out. There are features on the existing 562 lower bushing that I can't extract the necessary function of (and thus translate to the 563 setup), but those facts may reveal themselves after a bit more study.

Thanks for the feedback. I sometimes feel pretty isolated taking on these kinds of projects and it's inspiring for me as well to hear that somebody else thinks my efforts are worth something.

and p.s., I just realized that I overlooked painting the hand wheel and reverse lever, so I completed coating them with some black hammered paint a few minutes ago, which ought to go good with the gold. It's coming along.

Edited October 18, 2019 by Vinito

[Pintodeluxe]

I've never done a conversion, but I've had both 562 and 563 models.  I've heard that the number of distinct parts makes it cost more than just selling the 562 and buying a 563.

I once took a Virago into a motorcycle shop and asked the mechanic how to make it faster.  He quickly replied "Sell it and buy a Ninja.". It turned out to be sage advice.

Good luck with the project.  I'd still love to see how the process goes.

Edited October 19, 2019 by Pintodeluxe

[Constabulary]

pretty sure a lot people would like to convert their Singer 111 based machine to a large hook machine.

[Vinito]

I've been doing just a bit of preliminary digging, and to me it looks like what the bobbin situation is, is:

The hook shaft and cam are identical diameter, so that could  be extremely helpful for fitting things together without having to purchase a couple or few hundred dollars of parts. There is extra shaft length on the larger hook, but essentially that doesn't functionally make any difference and would be just a bit of extra shaft sticking out the bottom of the 562 saddle. Things are otherwise very similar.

It seems to me that the only modification necessary to make things function for the least money is that the hook/bobbin is only slightly taller on the 563 vs. the 562 parts, so one might be able to mill a tad off the top of the bushing so the 563 bobbin sets deep enough. However, a better solution would be to loosen the set screw holding that bushing in place, slip it out and turn the excess length off in a lathe. The reason is a bit esoteric, but it would probably be important to do it this way rather than shave the top of the bushing down with an end mill as was demonstrated in the bobbin conversion video by BRE. The short story is that the result will be a flat plane rather than a slight cone thus would last longer / wear much slower. If this is all a bit confusing, don't worry - I'll explain what I need to do on it in detail a little later.

I am picking up a few other parts both for comparison and also to feed my OCD which leads me to want the hook assembly conversion to be more as-designed. Honestly, I can't think of any reason why the smaller 562 parts (saddle, etc.) wouldn't last most any of us a lifetime of perfect function, so I'd say "save yer money". But another side reason for me to get these additional 563 parts is simply because out of curiosity I want to know the difference, and also to report these differences and subsequent opinions for posterity.

Also as an additional note, apparently it is necessary for proper function to upgrade the take-up lever as the 563 lever is a bit longer. I have found that this 563 take-up lever is a bit difficult to acquire for whatever reason. Maybe it's just a bad moment in time or something. But it's not exactly cheap either, so I'm going to think on other options to solve this problem. I can't think of any good reason why the 563 take-up lever needs additional arc to it such that it has. As long as it clears obstacles and the thread hole is the proper distance from the fulcrum, it should be all disco. I don't think there's going to be a way to lengthen the take up lever without welding, brazing or at least soldering. But if you can do one of those, that might be the most economical way to still end up with perfect functionality. I'm kinda just guessing on this so far though so I'll report back once I lern somethin'. If anybody knows something I'm missing, please yell it at me.

p.s. just a couple more added touches of progress:

Edited October 19, 2019 by Vinito

[Constabulary]

maybe someone with a 562 and 563 can measure the distance between thread eye on the lever tip and the "bushing" on the outside - just to get a rough idea if there really is a difference in length or if it is just the more pronounced arc.... Just an idea...

You at least need a different bobbin case opener and mill / grind down the corner of the thingy the opener is mounted to to make room for the larger hook.

Edited October 19, 2019 by Constabulary

[Vinito]

Yeah, that would be handy. There also might be a difference in angle (or coordinate delta) of the thread eye to the fulcrum/lower stem which would also be important (maybe) for clearances or timing or whatever. A bit more tricky to measure, but (obviously) could be done.

Maybe I'm missing something, but if it just had more arc and nothing else different, that would seem completely unnecessary for function.

It appears to me, at least on my parts, that the actual opener lever is no different. I've ordered a 563 opener lever and it looks to be the exact same thing, but I suppose it could be that my machine came to me with the lever replaced with the wrong one at some point.

I have noticed that the 562 opening lever crank is indeed too tight on one corner and will interfere with a 563 hook, thus will need a bit of material removed for clearance. In the parts book, there does indeed appear to have a corner milled away on the "proper" part so the larger hook will clear, but there are other subtle differences in the profile between the two parts as well so I'm not positive if there are other dimensional differences or not. Hopefully I'll verify either way on that soon too.

Edited October 19, 2019 by Vinito

[CowboyBob]

Yes,we have converted alot of these over the yrs.You need to either get the hook saddle from the 563 or mill the top of the saddle are for the hook & bobbin case opening lever to set lower since it's taller,the 562 lower bearing will work.Now is a good time to replace the upper bearing if needed they usually are worn & allow sideplay. .

Edited October 19, 2019 by CowboyBob

[JJN]

@Vinito, it makes sense that a larger hook will require a take-up arm with a longer pull to take up the slack thread once the thread passes around the bobbin. I measured my machines and the 563 take-up arm is almost 1/2 inch longer than the 562.

@CowboyBob, do you stock this part?

Here is a genuine Juki take up arm that appears to fit the LU-563.  I have bought many items from this seller with only 1 wrong part.

$52.50

Juki part # B1905-563-000

For Juki LU-1508, LU-1508N, LU-1509N, LU-1510, LU-1510-7, LU-1510N, LU-1510N-7

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Thread-Take-Up-Lever-For-Juki-LU-1508-LU-1510-Sewing-Machine-Genuine-Part/401116112683

Edited October 19, 2019 by JJN

[Vinito]

@JJN yeah I would think there's something like that going on regarding a longer take up arm. I originally ordered one of those exact arms from that seller (cutex), but they sent me a message saying they were out of stock and didn't know when they'd have them, and still didn't remove that listing either so I don't know what to think about that. I am currently waiting (for a while now) on a different supplier to either send one to me or eventually tell me the same thing I guess.

I made a bit more progress today though:

I just realized, you can't really see much of the progress. It's mostly all the stuff below that I've put back together so far, so sorry you can't see it there.

The observant will notice I didn't put the timing belt in yet but still put the bearing and hand wheel on. I am kinda mocking up the upper stuff so far, but the nice thing is that it all slips on and off nice and smoothly since it's all clean & deburred, so partial disassembly for getting back to that is pretty easy at this point. Gotta love that part.

By the way, I painted this with a spray gun and mixed in some catalyst which is the only reason it has cured and hardened well enough to handle some assembly like this. I dunno if the rest of you have used Rustoleum the past few years, but in my experience, in its unmolested state it takes days before it's even not tacky, let alone able to handle. It didn't used to be that bad, but they changed something I guess. Mixing and using spray guns is a bit of a hassle, but the results of the catalyst makes it worth it for sure.

Edited October 19, 2019 by Vinito

[JJN]

I will check with MJ Foley on Monday to see if I can get these parts from them. I have bought genuine Juki parts from them in the past. It took a while because some of them had to come from Japan, but they finally came through. Hopefully they have these parts in stock. I think the parts I need are:

B1905-563-000 thread take-up lever
B1830-563-0A0 vertical-axis sewing hook asm.
B1824-563-000 bobbin case opening lever

I may also need B1129-563-000 frame thread guide-upper, as it may work better guiding the thread with the longer take-up arm.

@Vinito, do you see any other parts needed? I think CowboyBob has a good idea to replace any worn bearings in your case since it is disassembled.

I am really liking that color!

Edited October 19, 2019 by JJN

[CowboyBob]

Ok,I just got the measurement.You need to have .100 milled off the top for clearance.

That color looks great!

[Vinito]

That's an interesting observation regarding the thread guide. That probably would never have crossed my mind. I'm gonna see how it goes with what I've got first, but good catch on you I think.

I can't think of any other parts. But I'm absolutely new to all this so I'm probably the last guy to ask anyway, unfortunately. But as far as I can tell, the other three parts is probably all you need for functional upgrade it at minimum expense. Note that this WILL require a bit of material removal for it to work. I am a machinist by trade so I have probably every tool known to man, but I'm going to see if I can think of a good way for a non-machinist to do it with less expensive tools and just some care applied.

I would agree that it's always a good idea to check out the bushings, but it might be worth actually checking them out before buying anything. You're gonna have to mill the top off the upper bushing anyway so be a shame to buy an unnecessary bushing and immediately go whittling away on it. I'm not sure yet if the saddle needs more machined away or just the bushing. In my case, for whatever reason, even though it was packed full of guck and stuffing, my bushings show no noticeable wear at all.

Are you sure it's .100" @CowboyBob? That seems excessive to me. I did a little measuring the other day and at first blush, I would have guessed it might only need .010" or so. That was all just a first glance though and it would depend on what point a guy needs to pick for a reference plane. You may very well be correct - it just hit me as maybe quite a bit more than I first thought. I do remember that I was struck thinking that the apparent scale of that big ol' bobbin was actually not a ton taller than the smaller one. It's all kinda fuzzy memory in my head now, unfortunately. I did write down my measurements, but I won't have access to them until at least Monday.

p.s. @CowboyBob thanks for the kudos on the color. It's already growing on me too!

Edited October 20, 2019 by Vinito

[CowboyBob]

You need to measure the thickness from the top of the flange of the opener cam(bottomside of the hook)to the top of the bobbincase tab,this will hit if it's not milled enough.

[CowboyBob]

3 hours ago, JJN said:

@Vinito, it makes sense that a larger hook will require a take-up arm with a longer pull to take up the slack thread once the thread passes around the bobbin. I measured my machines and the 563 take-up arm is almost 1/2 inch longer than the 562.

@CowboyBob, do you stock this part? @JJN IDK I'm on vacation till next week & can check with my Son & let you know.

Here is a genuine Juki take up arm that appears to fit the LU-563.  I have bought many items from this seller with only 1 wrong part.

$52.50

Juki part # B1905-563-000

For Juki LU-1508, LU-1508N, LU-1509N, LU-1510, LU-1510-7, LU-1510N, LU-1510N-7

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Thread-Take-Up-Lever-For-Juki-LU-1508-LU-1510-Sewing-Machine-Genuine-Part/401116112683

 

[dikman]

As you add other bits (with different colours) it's starting to tone down the gold colour. Not quite as much in-your-face effect. Looking better.

[Vinito]

1 hour ago, dikman said:

As you add other bits (with different colours) it's starting to tone down the gold colour. 

Well in that case, here's a taste of the whole enchilada then.

It still needs about 37 adjustments before it will work, but the parts are all in place now. The original parts I mean... since I'm still waiting on upgrade parts, I figured I'd just put it back together as it was and do the upgrade once it's all ready to toss in there.

How 'bout a after & before side by side?

I'm considering black hammered paint on the front and top cover plates, but not sure yet. It's kinda OK as it is. We'll see.

Edited October 21, 2019 by Vinito

[dikman]

That actually looks pretty good now. Definitely black on the top plate as it's next to the black handwheel (and probably the front plate too).

I hope it works after all this effort.

[Vinito]

Got a phone call today regarding my upgrade parts. Looks like the take-up lever is two weeks out (I interpret that as "minimum two weeks") and the other parts on the list are moot without all of them in-hand. So I guess I'm in no particular rush for the upgrade then.

I'll continue to do some measuring and thinking on the comparison of parts and options for a bobbin upgrade, because depending on how many parts and/or how much you are willing to spend, there are at least four different levels between minimum and complete conversion a guy could choose from.

I figure I might could go with a different source for my parts and luck out for getting them quicker, but I figger it will take me some time anyway to go through the machine and tweak it to my goal where it functions extremely well. Thus probably no big gain deciding to rush things. Also, I was somewhat impressed that my parts source actually called me to update me on the status - pretty rare these days I think. So I'll just start with setting it up to work as a stock 562 for now.

I agree that it seems like the cover plates would look better with the black hammered paint. I think it will end up there ultimately. My competing thought is that the bare metal would be more durable vs. the occasional scratch or the like, but of course that increases the already inevitable chance of rust. So if the practical options are a wash, might as well make it pretty.

And I totally echo hopes that all this effort ends up with a well-working specimen. I kinda like these mechanical puzzles so it's been fun for me. I've been restoring things in this manner for forever so I wasn't scared to jump right in. You never know exactly where things end up I guess, but I'm pretty happy with how it has turned out so far.

Besides restoring the head, I'm adding some cog belt pulleys between it and the motor to slow down the machine to 1/3 of current speed. That will suit what I want out of it much better too. Before I know it, I should have a pretty sweet setup.