Tooling / Skirting leather

[JLSleather]

I've bought leather from multiple retail locations.  After considerable 'research' and at considerable expense, I have concluded what I suspected from the start -- really the only rational place to buy leather is from the tannery.  I'd say "i should have known", but truth is I DID know and tried it anyway.   By mail order, I have personally killed too much time and effort ordering, getting, returning obviously unacceptable leather.  If you're able to physically go to the retail store and pick out the leather, that's a step in the right direction and may produce better results.  From my location, were I to travel to shop leather, Hermann Oak tannery is about as close as anybody!

These 'retail' places buy the lower grades of H.0. and W/C leathers and jack the price beyond what the tannery charges for the best grades.  Just from a standpoint of cost per foot the decision is obvious.  But even beyond that... this whole 'politically correct' BS about "customer service" is out of control.  If you're selling me lower grades for more money, then a pretty speech about it doesn't make it better.  I don't see sending me something OTHER than what you said it was is "service".  

For the hobby maker, who is not on a schedule and where the final look isn't critical (I myself dont care if my fishin' belt has a tick mark in the leather) some of this crap shoot might be acceptable. But if you're in business, hoping to meet deadlines and / or have satisfied customers - time is money.  

It should go without saying that if you got bad leather, the retailer should replace it - and replace it without additional cost to you (you shouldn't be paying a penalty, 'restock fee', or even shipping for returning something other than what you asked for).  But even if they replace the piece, you're still "out".  You took the time to find them, to call or click there, and order what they described.  And you waited for it to arrive.  All of that is unavoidable. 

But the viewing of leather that isn't acceptable, the call or click to contact the retailer, the time to package and return to shipper, the wait time for replacement, and any time you had to spend explaining to customers or altering schedules -- WHO PAYS for that?  Think that's NOT a legit expense?  I bet they're paying that girl you talked to on the phone when you ordered it in the first place. And the person who packaged and shipped it to you.  And they're paying the person you talked to about the return.  Maybe suggest that they pay YOU the same wage while you organize returning something other than what you were led to believe you were getting.  Still wouldn't be "service", but at least would be reimbursing you for your loss they caused.

Some of this 'research' I did just because I wanted to be able to answer people who ask - "where should I buy leather?' or "have you ever bought from ...?".  So I ordered 4 sides last 2 weeks, one from each of 4 different retailers.  I explained that I'm not going to be a "volume" buyer - but I might want a side or two per month from them, to fill in what weight is running low.  And they were each asked to send me the piece that shows what I can expect from ordering there.  Of the four - ALL advertised as "Hermann Oak, bestestest in the world blahblahblah...". (you know the line) - ONE was acceptable leather.  I'm not returning these, going through all of that.  But I won't be ordering again - just a few more on the "no fly" list.  Worth noting, though -- the prices charged were about 50% higher than you'd pay at the tannery for the same grades.

So, FYI - H.O. charges $7.81 per foot for A GRADE sides.  That's graded based on percentage of actual clean square footage of leather - NOT "the best of what we happen to have on hand at the moment" as some retailers do.  Didnt' catch that?  Here's an example:  a FOOT is 12" long.  You don't take 4 rulers which are 10", 8", 7", and 5", and say the 10" is the longest one we have, so that's a foot.  It's not a foot. Calling it a foot doesn't make it a foot.  Likewise, taking 3 "C" grade hides and a "D", you can't LEGITIMATELY take the one with the least damage and say that's a "A" (it's not, it's still a "C"). But that's basically what some retailers do.

From their web site today, HO pricing is UNDER $8 per foot ($9.25 for backs- no belly leather). 

Wickett-Craig charges me just over $10/ft for drum dyed skirting leather in backs (no belly leather).

My 'testing and research' is over - I have no desire to throw away time and /or money.  Just don't say I didn't tell you.

 

[JLSleather]

From H.O. (the way it REALLY is graded, meaning minus the retailer "spin" on it).

http://www.hermannoakleather.com/about/grading/grading-20140524202323

 

[Clintock]

You’re telling it now. I wouldn’t say I have a business in leather but I do sell several finished goods a month. Regardless, when you tell a customer that it’ll be ready in a certain time he expects it. He doesn’t wanna hear the supplier sent me crap for leather. Nor do I really wanna tell him that. 

I ordered from slc (if you’re gonna say they have great leather then save it. I don’t wanna hear it.) and the leather was pink with white streaks and stretch marks. Called them. Said they’d send me another piece. No problem. Just a couple days out. Second piece. Scratches. Bite marks. I won’t send the second one back due to time restraints but I definitely won’t be buying anymore leather from there. 

[JLSleather]

14 hours ago, Clintock said:

I wouldn’t say I have a business in leather but I do sell several finished goods

Well, for me, even if I didn't sell what I made, I'd still want it made WELL.  And well means quality materials. 

[Mattsbagger]

I get mine from W/C. I like HO but as a hobbiest/crafter, can’t justify the 10 side minimum. 

[Double Daddy]

22 hours ago, JLSleather said:

 "the best of what we happen to have on hand at the moment" as some retailers do. 

 

I've never understood or appreciated this statement either...if you're not willing to follow the tannery's grading system with THEIR product that you are re-selling, why offer it? Kinda like having a classroom full of kids that can't get anything above a B-, with most averaging a solid C. Then, here comes the teacher declarin' that the B- is now an A, C's are the new B, so on & so forth. Depreciated expectations: not exactly the cornerstone of ANYTHING of quality.

Edited October 28, 2019 by Double Daddy

[JLSleather]

11 hours ago, Mattsbagger said:

get mine from W/C.

Well, that IS the tannery

10 hours ago, Double Daddy said:

follow the tannery's grading system with THEIR product... Depreciated expectations:

 Yeah - he "gits" it.

[Outfitr]

I feel for you guys that go through tons of leather. I'm a hobbiest mostly and see quite a variation in the leather I order even though I don't use near as much as some of you. I just received an economy side skirting leather from my nearby Tandy store. I've used them before and for smaller sheaths and holsters they work pretty well. Suppose to be 10-12 oz. Good lord the smallest I could find on the side was 16 oz. and it went up from there. If it was thinner than advertised, no problem, I can always use it somewhere but this stuff I have no use for. You could use it for a skid plate on your off road truck maybe. They said oh well don't know if we can refund it. So if I can ever get it rolled back up I'll return it and trade it for something else.  I can't believe they didn't know it wasn't 10-12 oz. ?

[BigSiouxSaddlery]

19 minutes ago, Outfitr said:

I feel for you guys that go through tons of leather. I'm a hobbiest mostly and see quite a variation in the leather I order even though I don't use near as much as some of you. I just received an economy side skirting leather from my nearby Tandy store. I've used them before and for smaller sheaths and holsters they work pretty well. Suppose to be 10-12 oz. Good lord the smallest I could find on the side was 16 oz. and it went up from there. If it was thinner than advertised, no problem, I can always use it somewhere but this stuff I have no use for. You could use it for a skid plate on your off road truck maybe. They said oh well don't know if we can refund it. So if I can ever get it rolled back up I'll return it and trade it for something else.  I can't believe they didn't know it wasn't 10-12 oz. ?

I've bought a fair amount of leather from the tanneries, as well as through distributors.  Make no mistake, Tandy doesn't have the patent to THAT issue.  I normally find Wickett's skirting runs toward the light side.  It will measure under what the stated thickness is more often than over, although I got 4 sides of English Bridle from them last month, and they were all pretty true.  Hermann Oak, no different. . . I've had MANY sides of 9/11 russet harness leather that was heavier than the stated weight, and I just got some black harness that was lighter than what it was supposed to be.  Eventually, it almost all gets used because I do enough of a variety of work, but when in a time bind  and I order a side or two for a specific project, yeah it's extremely frustrating.

[JLSleather]

15 minutes ago, BigSiouxSaddlery said:

but when in a time bind  and I order a side or two for a specific project, yeah it's extremely frustrating.

Oh boy is it. Wonderful fun when you've agreed to make a gift for somebody's anniversary, order materials in what should be plenty of time.. and then get ... crap.

At that point, "gosh we're sure sorry" means a little LESS THAN SQUAT.

[DirtyDusty]

Where would be the best place to order a couple of sides of 13-15oz skirting, and have a pretty good chance of getting quality?

[DirtyDusty]

On 10/27/2019 at 10:08 AM, JLSleather said:

I've bought leather from multiple retail locations.  After considerable 'research' and at considerable expense, I have concluded what I suspected from the start -- really the only rational place to buy leather is from the tannery.  I'd say "i should have known", but truth is I DID know and tried it anyway.   By mail order, I have personally killed too much time and effort ordering, getting, returning obviously unacceptable leather.  If you're able to physically go to the retail store and pick out the leather, that's a step in the right direction and may produce better results.  From my location, were I to travel to shop leather, Hermann Oak tannery is about as close as anybody!

These 'retail' places buy the lower grades of H.0. and W/C leathers and jack the price beyond what the tannery charges for the best grades.  Just from a standpoint of cost per foot the decision is obvious.  But even beyond that... this whole 'politically correct' BS about "customer service" is out of control.  If you're selling me lower grades for more money, then a pretty speech about it doesn't make it better.  I don't see sending me something OTHER than what you said it was is "service".  

For the hobby maker, who is not on a schedule and where the final look isn't critical (I myself dont care if my fishin' belt has a tick mark in the leather) some of this crap shoot might be acceptable. But if you're in business, hoping to meet deadlines and / or have satisfied customers - time is money.  

It should go without saying that if you got bad leather, the retailer should replace it - and replace it without additional cost to you (you shouldn't be paying a penalty, 'restock fee', or even shipping for returning something other than what you asked for).  But even if they replace the piece, you're still "out".  You took the time to find them, to call or click there, and order what they described.  And you waited for it to arrive.  All of that is unavoidable. 

But the viewing of leather that isn't acceptable, the call or click to contact the retailer, the time to package and return to shipper, the wait time for replacement, and any time you had to spend explaining to customers or altering schedules -- WHO PAYS for that?  Think that's NOT a legit expense?  I bet they're paying that girl you talked to on the phone when you ordered it in the first place. And the person who packaged and shipped it to you.  And they're paying the person you talked to about the return.  Maybe suggest that they pay YOU the same wage while you organize returning something other than what you were led to believe you were getting.  Still wouldn't be "service", but at least would be reimbursing you for your loss they caused.

Some of this 'research' I did just because I wanted to be able to answer people who ask - "where should I buy leather?' or "have you ever bought from ...?".  So I ordered 4 sides last 2 weeks, one from each of 4 different retailers.  I explained that I'm not going to be a "volume" buyer - but I might want a side or two per month from them, to fill in what weight is running low.  And they were each asked to send me the piece that shows what I can expect from ordering there.  Of the four - ALL advertised as "Hermann Oak, bestestest in the world blahblahblah...". (you know the line) - ONE was acceptable leather.  I'm not returning these, going through all of that.  But I won't be ordering again - just a few more on the "no fly" list.  Worth noting, though -- the prices charged were about 50% higher than you'd pay at the tannery for the same grades.

So, FYI - H.O. charges $7.81 per foot for A GRADE sides.  That's graded based on percentage of actual clean square footage of leather - NOT "the best of what we happen to have on hand at the moment" as some retailers do.  Didnt' catch that?  Here's an example:  a FOOT is 12" long.  You don't take 4 rulers which are 10", 8", 7", and 5", and say the 10" is the longest one we have, so that's a foot.  It's not a foot. Calling it a foot doesn't make it a foot.  Likewise, taking 3 "C" grade hides and a "D", you can't LEGITIMATELY take the one with the least damage and say that's a "A" (it's not, it's still a "C"). But that's basically what some retailers do.

From their web site today, HO pricing is UNDER $8 per foot ($9.25 for backs- no belly leather). 

Wickett-Craig charges me just over $10/ft for drum dyed skirting leather in backs (no belly leather).

My 'testing and research' is over - I have no desire to throw away time and /or money.  Just don't say I didn't tell you.

 

You said 1 of the 4 sent you what you ordered, which place had the best quality side?