folded over leather breaking needles

[Dave84]

Hi Guys,

I've been battling this demon for a while now.  I make motorcycle jackets and rock n roll vests, areas of multiple layers of leather when folded over for the finish topstitch, cause the needle to ricochet while penetrating to the left, causing the needle to hit the bottom plate and break.  The needle will go through the first few layers then ricochet, i think from too dense of material.  But how do top companies like Schott and Vanson have such a nicely finished product?

Using 125/20 Organ leather needles with Tex 80 Polycore thread.  I hammer these dense areas with a ball pen to flatten as best as possible.  I can mostly get through these thick areas by hand cranking only, testing to see if the needle bends to the left, lifting up the top dog and wiggling everything over so the needle goes through the bottom plate hole.  It's such a pain and doesn't always give a straight stitch, sometimes from the ricochet it has a wonky line of stitch.

In the attached pic, heres an example of these dense areas.  to the right of the belt loop, you can see the wonkiness of the stitch!

Thanks for anyones imput.

[kgg]

I have two question:.

What is the combined thickness of all the layers of leather that you are trying to sew through

What machine are you using?

Also I don't see any attached pictures in your post.

kgg

[Ferg]

I don't see your pic either. kJ is on the right track. You probably are not using the correct machine for the job.

How many layers of what thickness material are you trying to stitch?

Ferg

Edited December 3, 2019 by Ferg

[Dave84]

Just uploaded again.  Material thickness I'd say is 3/8" to 1/2", folded over buffalo hide of 1mm if I remember correctly.  My machine is an Adler 167 walking foot, tex 80, 135x16tri 125/20 needle.

It's the seam just below the belt loop if the image is not straight but 90 degrees.  It didn't rotate on my phone lol.

[kgg]

I think you have topped out your machines sewing abilities. As a possible solution to the bending and braking of needles I would try a large diameter needle by moving up to a size 22 or 23 needle for the extra needle strength and increase the stitch length. If that doesn't work I would probably would look at investing in a different machine.

kgg

[Dave84]

10 hours ago, kgg said:

I think you have topped out your machines sewing abilities. As a possible solution to the bending and braking of needles I would try a large diameter needle by moving up to a size 22 or 23 needle for the extra needle strength and increase the stitch length. If that doesn't work I would probably would look at investing in a different machine.

kgg

Thanks kgg for your input.  I  know the Adler can handle leather, been using it for a while, but these areas of more density than I usually stitch together is frustrating.   I'll call Bob at Toledo and try some thicker needles but am concerned about the punctured hole size, even with a tex 105 thread.  I may ultimately rethink my lining structure instead for now.

[chrisash]

Can you not skive the leather down more at the area's you are sewing

[Mark842]

13 hours ago, Dave84 said:

I  know the Adler can handle leather, been using it for a while,

Your machine is a great machine in the upholstery class. At 1/2" , KGG is correct, you are pushing its limit. That being said I would move up in needle and thread size. Pretty sure that machine will handle up to a size 24 needle. That will likely stop the needle deflection.

One size doesn't fit all in leather sewing. I have 8 different machines and they all have a range for what they will do great.  Looking at your pictures you can see where your stitch length shortens as your machine is struggling to feed the leather.

[Dave84]

13 hours ago, Mark842 said:

Your machine is a great machine in the upholstery class. At 1/2" , KGG is correct, you are pushing its limit. That being said I would move up in needle and thread size. Pretty sure that machine will handle up to a size 24 needle. That will likely stop the needle deflection.

One size doesn't fit all in leather sewing. I have 8 different machines and they all have a range for what they will do great.  Looking at your pictures you can see where your stitch length shortens as your machine is struggling to feed the leather.

I'll definitely try moving up on needle size.  Your second paragraph is spot on!  There isn't much room for the feet to move at all.  I have a similar situation on denim, when there's a thicker part of folded over material then jumping to a thin, 2 layer section, make sense?  Never could really find an answer as to why that is, plenty of foot travel.

17 hours ago, chrisash said:

Can you not skive the leather down more at the area's you are sewing

I've been looking into skiving a little, but dont know much about it.  The amount I would need it doesnt justify a hefty pricetag though is my first thought.  Any good hand tools out there you could recommend chrisash?

[chrisash]

Not really I am crap at it myself but just use the basic hand skiver, But it will make a large difference to your sewing if you do it