CB4500 foot clearance problem

[dikman]

I've just realised that the clearance under the feet isn't to specs and I'm a bit perplexed. When the foot pedal is pushed down hard the maximum lift I'm getting is 5/8". I've studied the mechanics involved and can't see where the linkages have any adjustments. I removed the pressure adjustment screw to release pressure on the outer foot and when the pedal lifts to its max I can still push the feet up so the travel is there but it's not lifting. I'm still searching for info.

Before I start pulling things apart does anyone have any ideas?

[RockyAussie]

Can you take a picture from the back showing the linkage fully down? Could it be just that the chain needs to be a little shorter? Is it just that the foot pedal can not go any further down? Is the bar that separates the upper tension discs hitting the tension disc rod?

[dikman]

I can push down on the linkage at the back of the machine, so not using the chain/pedal, with the same results. I've been looking at the parts manual (for what it's worth) and I'll go down and have another look. It's a bit hard to see without removing some of the parts, fortunately this appears to be a fairly simple machine mechanically.

40 mins later: I may have found it, if not it's still something that's not right. I removed all the linkages to the pedal lifter which left a bell crank at the back, next to where the top tension assembly sits. This has a thick wire connecting link that goes down inside to a sliding block on the presser shaft (my manual calls it a "presser bar lifting bar"). When the pedal is pressed it operates the bell crank which lifts this wire lifting bar, which in turn lifts the presser bar. Only problem is it only comes up so far and then it jams against the housing, stopping the sliding block from lifting the presser bar any higher. Tomorrow afternoon (I'm going shooting tomorrow) I'll bend an off-set into the wire, which should stop it jamming.

Hopefully that's all the problem is.

Edited December 13, 2019 by dikman

[Wizcrafts]

Apparently. the (new) dealer failed to fully adjust and setup the machine. It takes time to develop a checklist of things that need to be tweaked and adjusted. I would mention it in a followup message to the seller.

Adjusting the internal lift parts requires removal of the faceplate. There are two large screws holding it onto the head.The full lift is a little over one inch. The pressure spring makes it harder to lift that high when it's in, so remove it while you fine tune the lifter components. When you replace the spring you need to recheck for binding on the wheel inside the head that pushes against an adjustable steel guide block. That block can be moved at both ends to get the smoothest action up and down. I tweaked my machine via those lifter parts.

When you are done adjusting the lift, oil all the tiny oil holes on the moving parts. Replace the faceplate, making sure you place the tension release lever slot over the stud that drives it on the rear lift lever. After a few times this will become old hat. Those internal parts need oiled every so often.

[dikman]

Thanks Wiz. Because I bought a head only I doubt it was checked by the dealer, just re-shipped still in its carton. If I had bought a complete setup, including table and motor, I've no doubt it would have been assembled and tested. No big deal as I like to find out how things work so that I can maintain them. There's just not a lot of information out there (as in none) on this particular aspect of adjustment. I'm quite confidant that once I put a slight bend in the lifting wire it will work as it should. I did manage to jam 3/4" of leather under the feet and it went through like it wasn't there.

I reckon they must have used an impact driver to do up the screws as every one I've had to remove has been bloody TIGHT!

[Bert51]

I realise you purchased Head only, I would have thought the Dealer should have mounted and tested the machine before shipping it to you, instead of just re-shipping the box to you.

Isn't that what you pay for?

Bert.

[kgg]

3 hours ago, dikman said:

Because I bought a head only I doubt it was checked by the dealer, just re-shipped still in its carton.

That doesn't say much for the dealer new or not. Not a great way to start off with a new machine. If they are a new dealer you would think the machine would not have left their hands until it was gone over and in perfect operating condition. For the price I would expect it to have been sewn off with the thread in the needle, the sew-off sample under the presser foot, manuals (operating and repair) in English and ready to work. You are to nice, if was me I would contact the "dealer" the machine came from and express my displeasure to the point of seriously considering whether or not to send it back. Have the dealer either do the repair, replace the machine or refund the money. If the dealer repairs it then they cann't say you screwed things up voiding your warranty should something else arise.

kgg

[dikman]

I understand what you're saying, and under different conditions I would do that (I've done it before!). She gave me what I consider a very good price and overall I'm happy enough with the machine. To send it back would be a major undertaking anyway. When I set it up it sewed fine straight out of the box and it was only when I decided to start pushing it that I discovered the problem. After studying its operation I consider it less complex than my Seiko and fairly easy to work on. If I can't fix it easily then I'll simply tell them it's faulty and take it from there (fixing it is far preferable than the stuffing around that will occur otherwise).

[RockyAussie]

I have to cut in and say that I had the pleasure of meeting face to face Jessica and Mitchell, the new owners of the Cowboy leather machines here in Australia. They are very new to this and I can assure you that they are very eager to learn every thing they can to be knowledgeable about their new business. There was a LOT of note taking and picture taking and discussion on various machinery whilst they were here and I know that if they don't have an answer to help you they are the type of people that would find out from people who know and get back asap. It would take a little time for them to get on their feet but I have no hesitation in recommending them already. They have also left a variable speed sanding burnishing machine for me to check out and I will get back in another post with my findings on that in the near future. 

[Bert51]

Having said all that, I still would think it had been run and tested so the would not be any need to even think of sending it back.

To send anything that size by a non-business person is a joke in the country.

I tried to something to a daughter we left behind in the Pilbara and it would have been easier and cheaper to fly over and take it as luggage.

Bert.

[RockyAussie]

4 minutes ago, Bert51 said:

Having said all that, I still would think it had been run and tested so the would not be any need to even think of sending it back.

To send anything that size by a non-business person is a joke in the country.

I tried to something to a daughter we left behind in the Pilbara and it would have been easier and cheaper to fly over and take it as luggage.

Bert.

You left your daughter in the Pilbara?

[Bert51]

Yeah, with her husband and children, many years ago now.

I worked (not the right word) for BHP  for 13 years.

Bert.

 

[dikman]

OK, I've found the problem, the lifting bar was fitted incorrectly (I'll post a photo from the manual later so this thread might make a bit more sense). When I had a closer look at it there also appears to be a crack in it, so while it's working I don't know how long it will last. I'll give Jess a call on Monday and let her know what happened and see if they can get me a replacement (it's only a bit of bent wire!). As this is the first time I've had anything to do with one of these machines it wasn't obvious at first and the manual only helped once I realised what was probably wrong. Anyhow, now I can get about 20mm using the foot pedal and if I force the foot up further by hand it will reach 25mm (1"). So it's working as it should.

Yes, it would have been nice if it had been checked first but as I said Jess gave me a very good deal so I'm not pushing the issue. Plus, Cowboy machines have a very good reputation for quality and they probably didn't expect anything to be wrong. As Brian said they are new to this and doubtless it's a steep learning curve for them, so I'm prepared to cut them some slack. It's a great machine and this little exercise has let me learn quite a bit about how it works.

[Wizcrafts]

The 441 machines aren't that complicated to understand. There are certain places that need adjusting for the best results. The operator and engineers manuals have a lot of details to help you set them up. Juki made the original TSC-441 in the 1980s and still makes it.

441 reverse-forward balance.pdf

441-timing-templates.pdf

Juki 441 Engineers Manual.pdf

Juki 441 parts List.pdf

[RockyAussie]

And it must be a comfort to know that you are not having to deal with some reselling dealer in China going through the Language barrier and the dubious not understanding you theme.

[Constabulary]

You find a lot of good videos from Solar Leather, Neels Saddlery or LW Member UWE and others for making adjustments on the 441 type machines.

F.I. check the Solar Leather website - this probably is the best support website in terms of sewing machine I ever came across - and (for me) one of the best arranged sewing machine dealer website AT ALL (all very clear and lots of information) :

http://www.solar-leather.com/supporthelp

Maybe you find what you need for solving your future problems.

Even when you do not own one of their machines its worth watching the videos - really!

Edited December 14, 2019 by Constabulary

[RockyAussie]

2 minutes ago, Wizcrafts said:

The 441 machines aren't that complicated to understand. There are certain places that need adjusting for the best results. The operator and engineers manuals have a lot of details to help you set them up. Juki made the original TSC-441 in the 1980s and still makes it.

441 reverse-forward balance.pdf

441-timing-templates.pdf

Juki 441 Engineers Manual.pdf

Juki 441 parts List.pdf

I had to check out the timing templates.........Thanks to @Uwe I still have one stuck onto my big pulley. I would like to recommend that if you a new owner of one of this breed that you check out Uwe's video that goes with these templates. Made mine work a whole lot better.

[dikman]

Yep, I probably would have been on my own and had to make a new shaped piece of wire!

I'll definitely be fine-tuning it once I get things sorted out.

Edited December 14, 2019 by dikman

[dikman]

The part in question is #3. It's obvious (now) that the top loop fits over the head of screw #13, but this screw actually protrudes through part #1 and the protruding part isn't threaded, so it looks like something fits over it. On my machine the loop on part #3 was over this stud, on the other side of #1, which looked right.

 

[Bert51]

Looks like you need a bit of fencing wire, that will fix it.

Bert.

[dikman]

[RockyAussie]

I remember having some similar issue with mine when I got it and I cant say for sure what I have is right or not but here are a few pics that may help anyway.

 

[RemingtonSteel]

20 hours ago, RockyAussie said:

I had to check out the timing templates.........Thanks to @Uwe I still have one stuck onto my big pulley. I would like to recommend that if you a new owner of one of this breed that you check out Uwe's video that goes with these templates. Made mine work a whole lot better.

Couldn’t agree more.  I thought I turned my new Ferdco 2000 into an expensive boat anchor.  Turns out that the two large allen screws holding the eccentric cam in place on the shaft were loose and the only thing really holding it in place was the small set screw. Timming got thrown off about 180 degrees when I tried to sew 5/8 inch of leather.  Uwe’s templates and video got me back up and running in no time. Now the machines runs even better than it did, and I have a deeper understanding of how my machine works. In the future I will not fear expensive boat anchors again.

[dikman]

Thanks Brian, the first photo shows the correct assembly. In the middle the plate with the stud sticking out to the left and on the inside is the wire loop over the screw head. The loop on mine was on the left of the plate, over the stud, which is used to push up the lever to open the tension discs. How mine still worked to open the discs is a miracle, given how short that stud is! I haven't been able to find any information regarding how this part of the mechanism works (and possible problems), there just seems to be an automatic assumption that it will never cause a problem!

RS, I figure they used an impact driver to do up the screws on mine!!!!!

[RockyAussie]

It would be helpful I think if we could get a couple of other peoples pictures as well to help establish if there are any differences in the set up. It is one part of the machine that I think could have been set up better and as you say it seems there are no good diagrams/pictures that show much in this area. I also took some off of the length of the wedge that opens the tension discs as it opened the discs ridiculously apart and was near impossible to get even a fraction of foot lift without loosening the top thread tension. (Not good when you want to lift a little to get around a corner etc). Works good now but was just another head scratching thing I ran into. I hope I remember to show Jess and Mitchell this the next time they drop in.