What's The Better of the Machines Available?

[Wizcrafts]

N.B.; The recent retaliatory tariffs on Chinese goods and sewing machines do not apply in Canada unless Canadians import machines from the USA. They can still buy from Techsew in Montreal at the same prices they have been paying.

[RoosterShooter]

8 hours ago, JLSleather said:

You'll see people selling Hermann Oak leather, in B and C (and worse) grades, for TWICE what Hermann Oak charges for A grade.  Hermann Oak is NOT in China.  Tariffs my backside  But that will continue as long as people are willing to pay it.

I pay $2 for a simple coffee at teh "convenience" store.  I know I could make my own coffee for like a quarter, so the markup is insane.  But, The $1.75 extra is for not having to go to where my coffee pot is, pour the stuff... etc.  

In the end, I don't really care to hear the long-winded stories some tell about WHY the cost is the cost (usually just a line of BS marketing spew anyway).  Just give me the total, and I'll pay it or I won't.

 

I understand that it's just simple business and economics.  However, I find it hard to believe that the Cowboy Sewing machines are any more than a $400 machine that someone imports, works on the proper parts to get the machine running properly, and resells them at a substantial Mark-up.  After all ... in today's day and time it's not hard to find out exactly WHERE these machines are being built. 

So, my point being ... if a $400 machine take a 25% tariff , that's only a $100 hike.  That doesn't take into account the fact that these are not tariffs that compound.  You pay them once, and you're done. 

I might just take a stab at one of these machines, on Alibaba, and see exactly what I get!  After all, what do I have to lose?  I have a reputable sewing machine repair shop, here locally, and it can't be any different than setting up a standard machine.  It's just a leather machine.    Right? 

 

Here's is an example.  .... https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/PA335A-cylinder-bed-compound-feeding-purse_60737338066.html?spm=a2700.themePage.1023205882945.127.621a5d280gDoSh

 

[JLSleather]

No, hey -- I 'get' it.  Good while back I saw this one.... didn't order it, though.  I see now says not available.  Looks JUST like that cobra thing, don't it?@! When I saw it available, it was priced about 40% of what that cobra sells for, making that some VERY expensive paint job.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2019484089.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.9.tLdJ5p&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_1_71_72_73_74_75,searchweb201527_1,searchweb201560_9

Even the "add-ons"... drop down edge guide was like $30 (not 90).. with no minimum order required and if they charged me a "tariff" it was so small I didn't catch it

Like ya say, guy has to shop just a bit (or should anyway).  Other day I looked ebay for some "dummy" guns I couldn't find...  and what i found was there are many 'dummy guns" available at many retailers in the $50-60 range... now offered on ebay (same brand, same gun) at $60-100.  I don't know why anybody would be uninformed enough to pay that, but it must happen or they wouldn't be there, right?

[dikman]

Have you read this post?

This story pretty much mimics my attempt at importing a 441 clone to Australia. At the end of the day there was nothing to be gained and much to lose. Yes, on Alibaba they can look attractive, but that is only the starting point. The prices I got varied from about US$643 to $1200 - head only. By all means bring one in, but all you're likely to save is maybe $3-400 at the most by buying the cheapest, and you've got  absolutely no idea what the quality of the machine will be.

[Wizcrafts]

7 hours ago, RoosterShooter said:

I might just take a stab at one of these machines, on Alibaba, and see exactly what I get!  After all, what do I have to lose?  I have a reputable sewing machine repair shop, here locally, and it can't be any different than setting up a standard machine.  It's just a leather machine.    Right?

Let us know how it works out moneywise. Do read the article, linked to in the previous reply, by one of our members after he went through the tedious process of importing a 441 clone from China. You'll need to have all manner of documents ready and be prepared to do money wire transfers from your bank to a brokerage agent. Even if all goes smoothly, you become the dealer as regards repairs and warranties. It is doubtful you'll get technical support from China, unless you speak Chinese. Good luck with that.

I like how folks who may have never imported machinery from China claim to know how much our US based dealers pay per landed and warehoused machine, or what the time to set them up is worth. Oh, and dealers have really big commercial buildings, trucks and huge overhead to cover from sales. Best of all, they offer after the sale support and can get parts one might need shipped out in days instead of weeks. Most will talk you through a repair on the phone, in English, not Chingrish. Just sayin...

[Arturomex]

2 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

Let us know how it works out moneywise. Do read the article, linked to in the previous reply, by one of our members after he went through the tedious process of importing a 441 clone from China. You'll need to have all manner of documents ready and be prepared to do money wire transfers from your bank to a brokerage agent. Even if all goes smoothly, you become the dealer as regards repairs and warranties. It is doubtful you'll get technical support from China, unless you speak Chinese. Good luck with that.

I like how folks who may have never imported machinery from China claim to know how much our US based dealers pay per landed and warehoused machine, or what the time to set them up is worth. Oh, and dealers have really big commercial buildings, trucks and huge overhead to cover from sales. Best of all, they offer after the sale support and can get parts one might need shipped out in days instead of weeks. Most will talk you through a repair on the phone, in English, not Chingrish. Just sayin...

Yeah, I agree. Lots of uninformed opinion in this thread that's easily tempered by reading the experiences of the people who've actually gone through the process. I've imported a few items from China. It's no day at the beach and what you thought you bought isn't always what you get. When I buy from a dealer I get what I pay for. Your mileage, however...

[JLSleather]

My latest machine was a bit north of $2500, one before that was about half that (not the same model). 

Do I think the price is inflated for what it is?  Yup.  But i paid it because I figured the benefit was worth it at the time.   I have no idea what the "dealer" paid for it, or any taxes or duties involved.  Nor do I care.  That one machine, girl wanted $1200 and I paid.  If she said $1500 she'd still own it.  But WHY she set the price the way she did is neither my business nor my concern.  She could tell me long stories about "overhead" and "all the work that goes into making the video about it"... NEITHER of which is my issue.

Truth is, you pay that stuff every day.  Stop and get coffee, and you're paying for the new parking lot, the lights, that girl behind the counter, (even the day she calls in sick), her insurance,.... and on and on.  Now, NONE of that is my problem - and I could just go make my own coffee.  SOMETIMES, I like to just pay a bit for the stuff that's already done.  I do try to steer away from the coffee girls who say stupid things (i mean, I do shop selectively).

NOW THEN... I return you to the regularly scheduled (originally asked) question:  WHICH is the best machine, which I will leave to people more knowledgeable than myself.  Maybe I'll go make a video about picking sewing machines... making a video "about" something obviously requires no actual knowledge of the subject ....

[Wizcrafts]

There are some really well built leather sewing machines that are out of production that can be found used for $2,500 or less. One that comes to mind is the older Number 9 Machine and its younger brother, the Luberto Classic. These machines have square feed of the needle bar instead of the common pendulum feed that shortens with height. They have a single jumping foot, needle feed, no feed dog and narrow slotted throat plates. It's a shame that Tony Luberto couldn't sell more of these machines that were so well built and stay in the game.

As for used leather sewing machines that typically sell for $2500 and less, I recommend the Union Lockstitch or slightly more expensive Campbell Randall Lockstitch needle and awl machines. They do have a learning curve but are worth the effort when you see how beautifully they stitch thick and thin stacks of leather. A skilled operator can set them up to sew from as thin as 6 ounces by using the smallest needle and awl combination and thin 3 cord thread. I was able to sew 8 ounce belts, guitar straps and rifle slings with #138 thread on the two ULS machines I've owned. They are built like Sherman tanks and many are still in service after one hundred years!

[BigSiouxSaddlery]

11 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

I like how folks who may have never imported machinery from China claim to know how much our US based dealers pay per landed and warehoused machine, or what the time to set them up is worth. Oh, and dealers have really big commercial buildings, trucks and huge overhead to cover from sales. Best of all, they offer after the sale support and can get parts one might need

That sounds remarkably similar to the battle a custom saddle shop faces daily.