M Size Bobbin Center Hole Inconsistency Question....

[Bmwmoa67707]

My wife just got a new Juki 1541S and in the process of getting acquainted with the machine, ie, winding bobbins, we have discovered that some of the bobbins supplied with the purchase, have slightly different bores.  Enough so that when sliding the bobbin on the winding shaft, some have a reasonable amount of friction, and consequently, wind the bobbin nicely.  However, several others have larger bores in the bobbin, and when sliding the bobbin on the shaft, it will just spin without any resistance at all.  Those bobbins won't wind at all.....so what's the story on all this...the winding shaft has a split in it that one could jam a screwdriver in and spring it open wider probably enough to hold the over-bore bobbins tight enough to cause them to wind, but doing that would make it unreasonably hard to slip the ones on that presently do fit correctly.   We are new to leather sewing machine, and the new Juki seems to be a wonderful machine, but whats the deal on the bobbins?

Thanks, Steve

[Bert51]

I have found a similar problem with cheap bobbins, some seller think all bobbins of a type, say CB have the same diameter hole..

Bert.

[Pintodeluxe]

Just keep buying bobbins, and get a batch that are the same fit.  Toss the outliers, as those will be maddening.  

Otherwise, invest in a few boxes of pre-wound bobbins.  

[Constabulary]

I had that with bobbins for my former 34K post machine - from a German dealer I bought so extra bobbins made of aluminum and they did fit not fit the winder. Then bought some SEKI made bobbins and they work well! I also has issues with my 132K bobbins I bought overseas then bought some SEKI bobbins from College sewing and they work perfect as well. Sometimes the price really matters - SEKI is more expensive but yet no issues with their bobbins.

[JJN]

I discovered the same problem when I got my 1541S. Wiz suggested a great idea that I now use when winding all my bobbins on all my machines.

Put the thread into the bobbin and out one of the holes on the side like normal. Then feed the thread through the center hole. Press the bobbin on the winder with the end of the thread pointing at you. The thread in the center hole tightens up the loose bobbins to work perfectly. The added benefit is you don't have to hold the tail of the thread while getting it started. Be sure to trim off the extra thread when you remove the bobbin from the winder or you will have trouble in your bobbin case. I now use all the 'cheap' bobbins I have with no problems.

[Bert51]

I have been feeding the thread through the center hole for many years, it saves a lot of mucking around with winding the bobbins.

My biggest problem is with my Singer 31K47, the bobbins are listed as #2996 and every time I purchase bobbins from sellers or ebay for that number, they are way to loose to use on my winder. I have been told that all 31's use CB bobbins.

I think Singer where very clever by making bobbins with different sized centers so they could sell more bobbins.

I also have problems with the center hole size for my Adler 105 bobbins, the seller told me to just spread the bobbin holder on the winder, I did and now I have no problems winding these bobbins then they are worth.

Bert.

Edited January 10, 2020 by Bert51

[toxo]

On the bobbin winder spline that the bobbins go on there should be a split. Tap a screwdriver in the split and the spline will widen.

[kgg]

If this is a new Juki from a Juki dealer call them and ask for the proper replacements. When I purchased my Juki 1541s from a dealer I purchased an additional dozen bobbins amongst other items. All of which were identical to the ones that came with the machine, no problems with any of them not fitting properly on the winder or in bobbin holder. I suspect the ones you got were after market replacements. Others have stated maybe ok, maybe work but you shouldn't have to do work arounds to get them functioning on a new machine. It is the small stuff that drives you crazy.

kgg

[Bmwmoa67707]

Guys, thanks for all the responses....looks like this is a common issue.  Machine was purchased new from a well recommended seller. Have been very happy with his communication and everything else.  Just the dozen extra bobbins, where 6 of them fit correctly, and 6 don't fit tight enough.....oddly enough, they all appear to be from the same manufacturer.  I will call the place we got the machine from and let them know about the problem today, I feel confident they will take care of it.  The idea of shimming the oversize hole with the tag end of the thread had already occurred to me, just hadn't done it.  Expanding the outside diameter of the shaft with a wedge of some sort,  while I know that would work, just doesn't seem right to me.

Steve

[CowboyBob]

IDK how many times we tried different bobbins from different suppliers for the 1541 & finally found some that are consistent.The black steel ones seem to be the worst.

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

2 hours ago, CowboyBob said:

IDK how many times we tried different bobbins from different suppliers for the 1541 & finally found some that are consistent.The black steel ones seem to be the worst.

I can confirm that too.  I've been having more and more problems with generic bobbins, and genuine tend to be pricey but are seeming to become more worth it.  And it's not just about the bobbins that we are talking about in this one case.

[Bert51]

12 hours ago, toxo said:

On the bobbin winder spline that the bobbins go on there should be a split. Tap a screwdriver in the split and the spline will widen.

The problem is toxo is that you have two lots of bobbins and when one lot fit perfectly and you paid good dollars for ones that don't, what do you do?

The seller told me to do that, but they wobble and no longer wind evenly, I could not stop the wobble no matter what I tried as one end of an Adler 105 bobbin being held by 5mm, leaves the other 20 odd mm to flop about while being wound.

I no longer use these over price bobbins and found some on Aliexpress that fit for a hell of less money.

Bert.

 

[toxo]

I hear what you're saying Bert but I don't know enough to comment further. To me a bobbin is a bobbin is a bobbin. If they're wobbling I would have thought that would be a problem with the shaft rather than the bobbin. I can see where there might be a problem if the shaft is opened so much that it's only gripping on the end and I can see where you guys might have a beef if you've paid big bucks for new macines but on my old Durkop I would just open up the split, put something in the back end of the split and close the front with some pliers to get it back to parallel if that makes sense.

[RockyAussie]

13 minutes ago, toxo said:

I would just open up the split, put something in the back end of the split and close the front with some pliers to get it back to parallel if that makes sense.

Do that very carefully as I have done the same and broken off one of the sides when closing it back up.

[toxo]

1 minute ago, RockyAussie said:

Do that very carefully as I have done the same and broken off one of the sides when closing it back up.

I can see where that could happen Brian. I suppose taking a file or some emery to it to reduce the high point at the front might work but you'd still have to open up the sline.

[kgg]

10 hours ago, Gregg From Keystone Sewing said:

I've been having more and more problems with generic bobbins, and genuine tend to be pricey but are seeming to become more worth it. 

I would suggest just supplying the genuine bobbin or other items for the machine whoever the manufacturer is. When someone is buying a new machine, north of $1000, the cost difference between the clone bobbin and the genuine bobbin should be of no real dollar concern to the buyer. It shouldn't make or break a sale. The buyer, particularly new owners, are relying on the seller of the machine to provide proper functioning items. It must be frustrating for the seller of the machine as well as the buyer having to replace / return items due to quality control issues beyond the sellers control.

kgg

 

[Bert51]

1 hour ago, toxo said:

I hear what you're saying Bert but I don't know enough to comment further. To me a bobbin is a bobbin is a bobbin. If they're wobbling I would have thought that would be a problem with the shaft rather than the bobbin. I can see where there might be a problem if the shaft is opened so much that it's only gripping on the end and I can see where you guys might have a beef if you've paid big bucks for new macines but on my old Durkop I would just open up the split, put something in the back end of the split and close the front with some pliers to get it back to parallel if that makes sense.

The Adler 105 and most Singer 45 bobbins are 30 mm long, so if you open up the bobbin holder with a screw driver or similar, you are then holding the bobbin by the last 3 to 5 mm, the other 25 mm is just going to move about loosely on the shaft, or in my words wobble.

I have tried to shim it, but then when I go to use my other bobbins, it becomes a pain in the you know where to wind bobbins. I no long use these bobbin and wrote them off to the school of hard knocks.

I was told these would oem bobbins, yeah right.

Bert.

Edited January 11, 2020 by Bert51

[Bmwmoa67707]

To follow up on the bobbins with an overly large hole to fit on our new Juki 1541S, I called the seller and advised about the problem, and they are going to get me some that fit correctly,  by fitting them on a like machine to confirm proper fit.  Since Gregg from Keystone Sewing responded here on this thread, I will give a big "thank you" to Gregg and his staff, ie, Lois, (the nice lady who answered the phone), and she said that she would take care of it, and we would have bobbins that fit correctly in a few days.  I must say that the communication, shipping and help with choosing the right machine and accessories.. working with Gregg and Lois, the whole experience was absolutely "FIRST CLASS!"

Steve

[leecopp]

Hi Guys. I use a home made junk box  built powered bobbin winder for all of my bobbins, mostly  class 15 and size M .  I mostly sew under foot treadle power and like the solid side bobbins so that I can write the thread size on them .  I use the tip of a medium large zip tie to act as a wedge if the bobbin is too loose.  Thanks for the tip about running the thread through the hole, I will give it a try.  I typically wind a bunch of bobbins at a time and store them in a bobbin organizer case .    Happy New to All..

[CowboyBob]

13 hours ago, Bert51 said:

The Adler 105 and most Singer 45 bobbins are 30 mm long, so if you open up the bobbin holder with a screw driver or similar, you are then holding the bobbin by the last 3 to 5 mm, the other 25 mm is just going to move about loosely on the shaft, or in my words wobble.

I have tried to shim it, but then when I go to use my other bobbins, it becomes a pain in the you know where to wind bobbins. I no long use these bobbin and wrote them off to the school of hard knocks.

I was told these would oem bobbins, yeah right.

Bert.

You need to get the correct bobbin winder w/a longer shaft.

[kgg]

3 hours ago, Bmwmoa67707 said:

Since Gregg from Keystone Sewing responded here on this thread, I will give a big "thank you" to Gregg and his staff, ie, Lois, (the nice lady who answered the phone), and she said that she would take care of it, and we would have bobbins that fit correctly in a few days.  I must say that the communication, shipping and help with choosing the right machine and accessories.. working with Gregg and Lois, the whole experience was absolutely "FIRST CLASS!"

Nice to hear.

kgg

[Bert51]

8 hours ago, CowboyBob said:

You need to get the correct bobbin winder w/a longer shaft.

Bob, I have the correct winder for my Adler 105, what I meant was, when you spread the bobbin holder with a screwdriver as suggested by toxo to use the bobbin that I purchased with a larger hole, they are only held by 3 to 5 mm of a 30 mm long bobbin.

I purchased these bobbin as being for the Adler 105 and they are to loose to use on my winder. This has happened with two sellers in Australia. I returned one lot for a refund and he claimed he never received them by return mail.

Bert.

[CowboyBob]

On 1/11/2020 at 7:52 PM, Bert51 said:

Bob, I have the correct winder for my Adler 105, what I meant was, when you spread the bobbin holder with a screwdriver as suggested by toxo to use the bobbin that I purchased with a larger hole, they are only held by 3 to 5 mm of a 30 mm long bobbin.

I purchased these bobbin as being for the Adler 105 and they are to loose to use on my winder. This has happened with two sellers in Australia. I returned one lot for a refund and he claimed he never received them by return mail.

Bert.

Ok,I thought you meant 3-5 mm from the end so I thought it had a short shaft,which some people have tried to use.

[Bert51]

I get annoyed when I have a good sized bobbin and it winds uneven and you cannot get a full bobbin while sewing.

If I have to use these bobbins, I sit down and wind 2 or 3 before I start sewing and that to me is a waste of my time..

Bert.

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

There's a reason why Bob and I are explaining that poor quality bobbins are giving service issues for end users.  

For example, if you have a Juki 441 type machine and the side hole does not match up for your bobbin winder, it's a problem.  If you have a box of 100 generic bobbins and have are snug fit on the bobbin winder shaft for about 30 bobbins while the other 70 are lose, it's a problem.

But issues can go way beyond just winding a bobbin.  If you have for example a top load, vertical axis hook, say on an LU-563 or LU-1508, if the outside diameter of the bobbin has a large enough gap while sitting inside of the bobbin case, the thread can pop out and get caught around the bobbin case latch, and jam up the machine.  Incorrect bobbin dimensions also tend to over spin, a real problem say on an electronic machine that starts and stops quickly.  Often an aluminum bobbin can also help as it has less weight.

There are just so many times that a poor quality bobbin can be a problem.