Sewing external bag seams?

[LeatherinCornwall]

I've been making leather satchels, backpacks and messenger bags, and it seems people are turned off by standard inside-flipped seams (sew and flip inside-out) when they see my external seam work.  I've been doing those hand sewn, but it's so time consuming. I've bought a Juki 441 clone for my leather work, and am trying to figure out the best way, and best presser foot/needle plate combo to make the best, straightest visible seams possible.  Youtube search yield nothing, I gather that people can't do it well enough, or they'd post a video. I know I can't exactly duplicate the look of straight hand-sewn work, but want to get close. Any thoughts on experience with this?  Any help is most appreciated.

[Rockoboy]

I am not an expert, but I think anything handsewn is done by hand, and there is no good way to duplicate that handsewn appearance with a machine. IMHO.

[LeatherinCornwall]

Sure, I realize that. But I just want a fighting chance to make stitches appear straight and even across an external seam.  Doesn't have to look exactly like hand sewn.

[LiftPig]

A machine designed for stitching shoe soles would probably do the trick.  They're made to get into tight corners.  I've never used one though so I could be talking out the wrong orifice.  

[LeatherinCornwall]

55 minutes ago, LiftPig said:

A machine designed for stitching shoe soles would probably do the trick.  They're made to get into tight corners.  I've never used one though so I could be talking out the wrong orifice.  

I did buy the raised needle plate for doing harnesses, etc. I imagine that's along the lines of what you're thinking.  I did try that, however it requires removal of the feed dog, which then makes stitch length unreliable.

Edited January 30, 2020 by LeatherinCornwall

[Tugadude]

Someone posted about this similar issue just the other day.  They wanted to somehow make their machine stitching look closer to saddle stitching.

Apparently the main issue is the backside appearance.  I will say that some of the machine-stitched leather articles I've seen leave a lot to be desired when it comes to the bottom stitching.  I do not use a machine so I cannot follow some of the technical stuff, but hopefully others who do have machines can help.

[LeatherinCornwall]

Yeah, thanks I saw that post. I don;t mind the back side look. If tension is set correctly, it looks fine to me.  I just want reliable straight sewing on the edge.

It's sounding more and more like I'm off in the weeds here.

Edited January 30, 2020 by LeatherinCornwall

[RockyAussie]

Some info in this post I did awhile back may help you.

Some pictures of your work may help with suggestions.

[Dwight]

This may not be what you are looking for, . . . BUT................

Every now and then, I run into a situation where it must be hand sewn, . . . either by design, . . . or by some "special" choice.

I have a couple options, . . . and one I like is to take my handy dandy Tippmann Boss, . . . remove the thread, . . . and let it punch the holes for me.

Then I glue it together with a needle aligning everything up at each end, . . . then I grab my saddle needles, . . . and "hand sew" the thing.

I get the benefit of not having to punch every hole, . . . the look of saddle stitching, . . . and the strength of saddle stitching.

Yer darn tootin it costs the customer more when he gets that, . . . but I have not had a complaint yet.

May God bless,

Dwight

[LeatherinCornwall]

12 hours ago, Dwight said:

This may not be what you are looking for, . . . BUT................

Every now and then, I run into a situation where it must be hand sewn, . . . either by design, . . . or by some "special" choice.

I have a couple options, . . . and one I like is to take my handy dandy Tippmann Boss, . . . remove the thread, . . . and let it punch the holes for me.

Then I glue it together with a needle aligning everything up at each end, . . . then I grab my saddle needles, . . . and "hand sew" the thing.

I get the benefit of not having to punch every hole, . . . the look of saddle stitching, . . . and the strength of saddle stitching.

Yer darn tootin it costs the customer more when he gets that, . . . but I have not had a complaint yet.

May God bless,

Dwight

Dwight, thanks for the reply.  I guess getting the holes in the right place is the whole issue for me. The stitching looks fine if the machine is set right and done super straight.  You actually have to look closely to tell them apart. But only if I can get a straight line of holes punched with the machine in the first place.   Have been practicing, seems that if I scribe a typical edge groove, as is done for hand stitching, it gives a good line for the needle to follow, and sewn at super slow speed, seems to work out well.  Unless the bobbin empties...or tension goes haywire due to an errant snag somewhere, lol....

 

[toxo]

21 hours ago, LeatherinCornwall said:

I've been making leather satchels, backpacks and messenger bags, and it seems people are turned off by standard inside-flipped seams (sew and flip inside-out) when they see my external seam work.  I've been doing those hand sewn, but it's so time consuming. I've bought a Juki 441 clone for my leather work, and am trying to figure out the best way, and best presser foot/needle plate combo to make the best, straightest visible seams possible.  Youtube search yield nothing, I gather that people can't do it well enough, or they'd post a video. I know I can't exactly duplicate the look of straight hand-sewn work, but want to get close. Any thoughts on experience with this?  Any help is most appreciated.

I'm not quite understanding your problem. Are you saying you want a particular look or do you just want a straight seam? I like making bags (learning to) and I've been looking at lots of em and there are plenty of very expensive bags out there that just use overlapped edges on the outside which of course gives an edge to work with. I've just finished a large tote and got in lots of trouble because I chose the wrong seam stitch. The next time I'll use double felled seams on panels which again gives an edge on flat work. On corners I'll try more piping I think. I'm looking at these for a stitch guide after getting too close with the drop down guide broke three needles.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10SETS-PIPING-WALKING-FEET-with-R-L-EDGE-GUIDE-FOR-JUKI-DSC-244-DSC-245-DSC-246/272815313770?hash=item3f850f536a:g:6LYAAOSwu~ZdcbXr

[LeatherinCornwall]

toxo, my issue is making a straight and neat stitch evenly around the overlapped outside seam, given the odd shape, and especially around the corners where the curve area is most difficult.  

[toxo]

6 minutes ago, LeatherinCornwall said:

toxo, my issue is making a straight and neat stitch evenly around the overlapped outside seam, given the odd shape, and especially around the corners where the curve area is most difficult.  

One of those edge guide presser feet will sort that. You can get left or right.

[RockyAussie]

On 1/31/2020 at 12:50 AM, LeatherinCornwall said:

I've bought a Juki 441 clone for my leather work, and am trying to figure out the best way, and best presser foot/needle plate combo to make the best, straightest visible seams possible.

 

10 hours ago, LeatherinCornwall said:

my issue is making a straight and neat stitch evenly around the overlapped outside seam, given the odd shape, and especially around the corners where the curve area is most difficult. 

I think a picture of the job that you are trying to do would help get a more relevant answers. Are you trying to stitch close to the outer edge or close to a seam?  

[Northmount]

What are you using for an edge guide"

Tom

 

[LeatherinCornwall]

Latest bag, completed yesterday.  I'm figuring out the machine. Some of this is obviously hand sewn, the outer stitching and some other work is with the machine.  I don;t think people can tell the difference, unless the stitching gets sloppy crooked.

 

[LeatherinCornwall]

This is the presser foot combo I find works the best so far.  I made this set from a stock larger fork style, as they're cheap to buy.  Just narrowed the center foot, and cut up a fork, welded a foot in line behind the center foot, for an inline set. Works a treat.  However also, you can see in the photo, the stock needle plate slot is huge, and I welded the rear portion shut, that resides under the rear foot, as the feed dog doesn't travel that far.  Works a treat.  For a machine drive, I used a cheap Chinese servo motor, and installed an oil filled gear box drive picked up on Ebay for a few bucks, reduces it by 3.8 to 1.  Now I can stitch so slow I can almost go get a cup of coffee waiting for the needle to come around again lol....

 

Edited February 2, 2020 by LeatherinCornwall

[LeatherinCornwall]

[LeatherinCornwall]

On 1/31/2020 at 8:40 PM, Northmount said:

What are you using for an edge guide"

Tom

 

For an edge guide, though I ordered one, it's not here yet. And I don't think it could be used here.  The leather is too soft. I simply scribe a straight line and follow it by eye. The line actually goes all curved on the machine, I just realign to follow it, and end up with a super straight line afterwards. The material is just too flimsy to follow an edge or even stay straight resting on the curved needle plate.  That's where this inline setup helps...the narrow center foot and hidden rear foot maximize the seam visibility...just gotta center the scribed line on the hole in the front foot.

 

This new machine is freaking amazing. I ran through all the factory tuning to ensure it's dead on, I think it's right now.  Still not fond of the look of the back stitching, so I just leave enough thread to tie the ends off under the seams, looks neatest.  I'm still a beginner. I'm sure there are better ways to get there, but so far this works for me. The first machine I had was a SailRite clone, and the  POS would skip stitches, lose its timing, etc. if you looked at it wrong, despite setting all the timings and adjustments perfectly.  Just couldn't handle changes in thickness or any variations in the work without hiccupping. Sold it.  This 441 clone just carries on.

 

Had a get together with friends last eve, showed off this bag, and had like 4 or 5 commission requests, between this one and the 2 others I made, they're interested.  These dang things just take too much time to make any money compared to the day job.  What's a bag like this even worth, on a commission scale anyway?  $300 maybe? $400?  I have like 20 - 22 hours in this last one.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 2, 2020 by LeatherinCornwall

[RockyAussie]

The softness of that leather as you say makes it a little hard to keep straight. I have for soft leather edges a flat edge guide about an inch long that helps the leather edge not move in as it does on the standard roller style guides. If you decide to make one tilt the back end about 1 degree inward as this will make the long straps stay straight and almost not need to be held. Following a straight line on soft leather like this will often lead to some over stretching of the work and look wobbly when finished.The foot work combo is not the best in my opinion and I think you would be better with a left foot in use instead. This will make the job hold more stable and will not affect your visibility that much if at all. Where you have welded in the back of your needle plate means that you have reduced the possible length of your stitches and you could also easily cause damage if you mistakenly open the stitch length a little too far as you go. I would suggest the flat needle plate may be worth a try for now if you have one. You may be able to get a set of narrow dog feet and needle plate as I did in the post I mentioned above or if you want to wait for a few weeks I have a friend working on making a matching set for the Cowboy 4500 along the same line over here. I should have some to trial pretty soon and I will post the results here on LW when that is done. BTW the bag work looks promising and if your machine is set up right I would say the bag should easily be made in a day on a one off basis as long as you have all of your patterns sorted well. This could be half that time frame if you were doing 5 at a time with minimal variations. I don't see where any hand stitching would be needed except perhaps the handle and that can be designed to work for a machine as well.

[LeatherinCornwall]

14 hours ago, RockyAussie said:

The softness of that leather as you say makes it a little hard to keep straight. I have for soft leather edges a flat edge guide about an inch long that helps the leather edge not move in as it does on the standard roller style guides. If you decide to make one tilt the back end about 1 degree inward as this will make the long straps stay straight and almost not need to be held. Following a straight line on soft leather like this will often lead to some over stretching of the work and look wobbly when finished.The foot work combo is not the best in my opinion and I think you would be better with a left foot in use instead. This will make the job hold more stable and will not affect your visibility that much if at all. Where you have welded in the back of your needle plate means that you have reduced the possible length of your stitches and you could also easily cause damage if you mistakenly open the stitch length a little too far as you go. I would suggest the flat needle plate may be worth a try for now if you have one. You may be able to get a set of narrow dog feet and needle plate as I did in the post I mentioned above or if you want to wait for a few weeks I have a friend working on making a matching set for the Cowboy 4500 along the same line over here. I should have some to trial pretty soon and I will post the results here on LW when that is done. BTW the bag work looks promising and if your machine is set up right I would say the bag should easily be made in a day on a one off basis as long as you have all of your patterns sorted well. This could be half that time frame if you were doing 5 at a time with minimal variations. I don't see where any hand stitching would be needed except perhaps the handle and that can be designed to work for a machine as well.

Hey, thanks for the insight.  Yeah, I should have set the stitch length to full, before measuring for that cutout, I'll check and readjust later today. Head up my keester at times. Wow, if I could knock these out in  a day, that would potentially be profitable. First one took like 30 hours with all hand stitching, the last one like 16-18 with partial hand work.   I've got the advantage of using Autocad for pattern design, my day job requires the skill already for building design, so on that end, designing new projects is easy and quick.  I will look into a left foot setup, would like to see what you come up with on your end.  I don't care much for the flat plate without a feed dog, the stitching thus far I've found to be unpredictable in length at times.  But it's all still new to me, maybe that can be sorted out.

Is there a pic of a flat edge guide on here somewhere? Interested...

Edited February 3, 2020 by LeatherinCornwall

[RockyAussie]

Different machine but this pic shows another flat edge guide I made that I can angle inward etc. This keeps a little inward pressure with a strap and it pretty much feeds itself through with minimal help.

[RockyAussie]

If you replace the roller and put in a bit of 3/4" angle bolted on you would have something similar to guide above.

If you want to cut out the see-saw as you stitch you need to get a narrow throated needle plate and thinner feed dog to match as shown below. This makes freehand way way easier and predictable including the straighter better tension look on the underside.

Soft leather also is then more real and note again I am using just a standard left foot.

[LeatherinCornwall]

At $375 plus shipping that 4-piece set is a bit out of my reach at the moment for occasional use.  Though I may make a set from standard cheaper parts.  Amazing what one can do with  a mig welder and a right angle grinder.

My new roller guide like yours above hasn't shipped yet, being Chinese New Year plus Corona delay...

Edited February 4, 2020 by LeatherinCornwall

[MoMatt]

Harry Rogers has a video on youtube sewing a bag with a machine.  Diresta also has one sewing a tool bag.  If you haven't seen them I think you might enjoy watching them.