Set up CB 3500 for light work or buy dedicated flat bed?

[cpirtle]

Hi everyone. After almost 20 years of making knives, sheaths and holsters I went full time as a sheath maker 1-1-2019. Business has been phenomenal and I recently upgraded my 11 year old Cowboy 3500 to a new Cowboy 4500. My plan has been to keep the 3500 as a backup in the event the 4500 went down, and also to leave it staged with thread loaded so I have less changes in the 4500 during a batch.

I have recently started getting into accessory products as well, such as EDC wallets, pouches, field notes covers etc.. I am debating between setting up the 3500 with lighter thread and needle or just buying a Sailright Ultrafeed portable. I'd buy a bigger industrial flat bed but I just don't have room in my current leatherworking studio for another dedicated table unit. The Sailright could be set on a shelf and just pulled out when needed.

I've never run anything less than 277 thread on my Cowboy's and 99% of the time run 346/415 thread.

I'd like to hear opinions on whether I'd be better off with the Sailright & monster wheel setup to run 138, or setting up my 3500 to run 138. 

What I'd be stitching would never be thicker than 1/4" - maybe a single layer of 5/6 oz English Bridle and a couple of layers of lighter leathers/exotics.

My concerns with the 3500 is how well I will be able to dial in the tension for lighter threads, where on the Sailright I am concerned about how slow I can run it. I know I can run the 3500 at a snails pace but everything I see of the Sailright looks like slow for it is likely faster than I run my 3500 wide open throttle. Long term the Sailright appeals to me as well for the ability to add canvas, Nylon and additional materials that the 3500 may not be well suited for.

Thanks in advance, really looking forward to hearing what you all think.

Chad

PirtleMade Custom Leather

Instagram Feed

[Wizcrafts]

I have a CB4500, in a room full of other sewing machines machines. I have developed a system for dumbing down a Cowboy CB4500 to sew with thin thread. Read it and decide if you want to go through the routine every time you need to sew a wallet, or hem pants. My solution was to buy a lighter duty cylinder arm machine that handles thread sizes 46 through 138 and can sew over a 3/8 inch seam, maximum.

[dikman]

If your business is doing well then the last thing you want is messing around changing a machine to sew thin stuff, only to have to change it back to sew something thicker (as Wiz has implied). From everything I've read while the Sailright is competent enough within it's limitations you will be better off with a "proper" industrial machine. There have been posts where members have made wooden box bases for an industrial machine (the sort you're looking at, typical upholstery class machines) and mounted a servo on top and directly behind the machine. This makes it an all in one unit, except for a cable-operated foot control.

[RockyAussie]

If room is an issue why not sell the 3500 and replace it with a machine that can still cover the large end a bit and cover the middle ground as well. As you have Cowboy range the CB 341 might suit better https://www.tolindsewmach.com/cb341.html .

I like the tapered cylinder end for getting around those tight areas on wallets and bag gussets and such way more than a dumbed down 3500 with an overlong needle that has no leather point size for the lighter threads. I agree with Wiz on the Techsew 2700 but I would prefer I think the Techsew 2750 for the tighter areas I stated earlier. https://www.techsew.com/us/techsew-2750-pro-cylinder-walking-foot-industrial-sewing-machine.html 

I would think that you would be able to sell the 3500 here for enough to make the changeover very affordable.

[cpirtle]

Thanks for the advice, it's all well received!

Wizcrafts, that's a great write-up on dumbing down the 4500, thank you. I'm going to keep reading some of your other articles as well.

Dikman, you hit the nail on the head. Right now time is more valuable than money because I lose both messing around. I am sitting on an 8 month backlog currently with Blade Show staring me in the face, so I don't want to take a bunch of time tinkering. The small accessories are something I can work on during down time and sell quick, so I want to get up an running. I have seen some of the conversions being done and like that idea but it goes back to the amount of time spent sourcing the machine and doing the work. 

RockyAussie, I've thought about selling my 3500 but frankly it's a bit sentimental, I know, I need to get past that. I also lost a few weeks of work last year when another piece of equipment failed (long story) and had to be replaced, so I have since committed to having redundancy in essential equipment. We are thinking about buying a new home soon and my "in the home" shop would be much larger. I have a 2000 sf work shop but it's detached from the house and since I work all hours of the day and night doing leather when my wife or 6 year old daughter are away or asleep I want to keep leather inside.

I only live 35 minutes from Cowboy's main location and have developed a good relationship with Ryan at Neel's Saddlery over the years. Hightex has the 74400 which is identical to the Cobra Class 20 and if I had the space I'd probably be having him prep one for me. My thought on the Sailrite is that it's a low investment and when I get to a point where I can justify the cost I will figure out a way to make the space work for the 74400 and can flip the Sailrite to help pay for it.

Is the Sailrite with the heavy wheel really that bad? 

Thanks again

[Wizcrafts]

3 minutes ago, cpirtle said:

Is the Sailrite with the heavy wheel really that bad? 

No, it's a good, well built sewing machine when used for the purpose it was designed: sewing vinyl upholstery, Bimini covers, awnings, tents, tarps and sails. The Sailrite LS and LZ portables are top and bottom feed walking foot machines (with teeth on the feet) with a static position needle and inside foot. The design specs say they are limited to #92 thread. Some people push the limits (and maybe the warranty) by loading it with #138 thread. The Monster Wheel is needed to help the machine penetrate leather. The machine will struggle too much without it. Tandy Leather is having a sale on them right now (branded as the Craftool® Pro Stitch Master®).

[cpirtle]

True, I've been reading so much about various machines I forgot they stopped at #92 (recommended). They also have the leather foot and feeder that I figured I'd try.

I'll check out Tandy too, thanks for the lead!

[cpirtle]

Here's an interesting development..

I had a long talk with Ryan at Neel's and pretty much decided I did not want to use anything less than 207 thread since my thread is always a feature of my leatherwork. We discussed the 341, 227 and a 1510 (or 7510) a flat bed I was not familiar with and is based on the Juki 1508, all three are in the $2000-2300 range. All three will run 207 but in his opinion the 1510 was best suited for it. I talked it over with my "business partner and money approver" (AKA my wife) and decided to proceed with the 1510. I am going to move some things around and take a little space from my part time employees work are to make space for another table machine.

Being the conscientious consumer I am I decided to make a test piece using my 4500 running 277 thread on a small EDC wallet I've been meaning to make. I used roughly 2 oz pebbled Italian upholstery leather bonded to roughly 2 oz English Bridle I split down, two layers thick, total thickness is about 3/16" and here's the results. These stitches were done with no adjustments from my normal tension settings right after stitching a 5/8 thick knife sheath.

Now I am thinking about holding off, but I still have the want to do canvas and nylon down the road and am wondering if I can improve on this any further with a flat bed.

Anyway, just thought I'd share my findings. Thanks!

 

 

[CowboyBob]

Try some #138 in your CB4500 it should w/o much adjustment & be the right size for what your sewing.

[RockyAussie]

Very well done show piece of both the machines and the operator's quality I believe. I think using a cylinder machine for getting around those rounded corners is a lot easier than using a flat bed but I just hate using flatbeds myself for almost anything except long lines of fabric credit card pockets bottoms and stuff like that.

[cpirtle]

1 hour ago, RockyAussie said:

Very well done show piece of both the machines and the operator's quality I believe. I think using a cylinder machine for getting around those rounded corners is a lot easier than using a flat bed but I just hate using flatbeds myself for almost anything except long lines of fabric credit card pockets bottoms and stuff like that.

Thank you! That's interesting insight on the flat beds and something I don't think I've seen mentioned before. I am pretty particular about trying to get my corners right.

 

CowboyBob, thanks for the post but I no longer want to use 138 since buying a small spool, trying to stay at 207 or larger for leather for the aesthetics.

Edited February 15, 2020 by cpirtle