Nigel Armitage's forthcoming book

[Tugadude]

4 hours ago, Klara said:

@Tugadude The best value sets I can find on this continent seem to be Deco-Cuir's own "brand": 40 Euros, currently discounted to 32, for 3 pricking irons with 2, 5 and 10 teeth. But that's pricking irons, for marking stitches, not for making holes. Where have you found true stitching irons (not diamond  chisels) for 20 Dollars? Might be worth paying shipping and customs...

@Sheilajeanne The Stohlman books I find most interesting are those on handsewing, tools and case making. I've not even started with tooling and stamping yet (and I figure with my non-existent drawing skills there's not much point) 

Klara, are these the pricking irons you mentioned?  

 

[Tugadude]

We've sort of derailed the thread, hope nobody minds.  

Springfield Leather Co. offers pricking irons that appear to be very similar to the ones that Deco-Cuir is selling.  And the pricing is pretty similar.  If you have a wholesale account with SLC you can get the set for $29.99.

  For some reason, the picture won't past "full size" for me.    But you can view them on their website, along with the diamond chisels I bought.  https://www.springfieldleather.com/

 

There continues to be an issue communicating what tools we're talking about.  Some call them irons, some call them chisels and I'm sure there are other names I'm not aware of.

I try to refer to the traditional pricking irons, the ones that are mainly to mark the spacing as irons and the other style, which is designed to fully penetrate the leather as stitching irons, or stitching chisels.  

I guess I should settle on using the word chisel when I'm speaking of a tool designed to fully penetrate.

Stitching chisels can be round, straight or diamond-shaped.  Some people have no issue with round holes and many kits come pre-punched with round holes.  Many people use a drill press to make holes, which are obviously going to be round.  Personally, I've never tried round holes, but except for creating a flatter stitch, I guess they work just fine.  Nigel did show how to do a cast on your stitch and encourage a slant even when using round holes, so I could try that.

Some of the higher-end stitching chisels are just straight teeth, little to no taper and no diamond shape.  Still others feature a pronounced diamond shape.  I guess there truly is something for everyone.

[Sheilajeanne]

Klara, fortunately craft knives aren't expensive!  I blew big bucks on a good quality round knife, only to find it's not the right tool for me! It also doesn't fit my hand. 

ARgh. If anyone wants one, feel free to PM me! 

[Klara]

2 hours ago, Tugadude said:

Klara, are these the pricking irons you mentioned?  

 

Probably, they look like it. I'm not surprised that Springfield are selling them as well. They probably all come from the same factory in China. But with a bit of luck, "our" retailers demand decent quality and check for it. If not returns are not too difficult...

[Rannoch]

23 hours ago, Klara said:

I have nothing against stitching irons - except their price And that I might end up working over a round form... The way I understand it, as long as I know how to use the awl, it doesn't matter how I mark my stitches. Or even whether - I just re-read The Brendan Voyage by Tim Severin and he just mentions awl and needles (and a master saddler with decades of experience to oversee the work) for sewing the leather boat he then sailed from Ireland to America (great book, btw.)

I love that book.  I couldn't figure out what sort of stitch the master saddler used to make the seams water tight.  Have you?  

I use a machine on some projects.  Hand stitching is really almost as fast as machine sewing on small projects, and faster in some projects.  Also, hand stitching looks much nicer.  Over and over again customers ask, "what kind of machine makes this stitch?"  When I tell them it's done by hand they are amazed.  It's a selling point.  

If ten people start leather working, or hand spinning, I wager only one continues on with it after making one or two projects.  But their interest in it creates appreciation for the work.

 

[Sheilajeanne]

1 hour ago, Rannoch said:

I love that book.  I couldn't figure out what sort of stitch the master saddler used to make the seams water tight.  Have you?  

I use a machine on some projects.  Hand stitching is really almost as fast as machine sewing on small projects, and faster in some projects.  Also, hand stitching looks much nicer.  Over and over again customers ask, "what kind of machine makes this stitch?"  When I tell them it's done by hand they are amazed.  It's a selling point.  

If ten people start leather working, or hand spinning, I wager only one continues on with it after making one or two projects.  But their interest in it creates appreciation for the work.

 

Rannoch, it wasn't the stitching that made the boat waterproof so much as it was the lanolin the hides were dressed with. I looked it up, out of curiosity: http://www.leathersmithe.com/the-brendan-voyage-select.html

The boat was made from 57 oak-tanned ox hides, tanned using traditional methods that take nearly a year to complete! 

The thread they used was hand-spun flax, treated with black wax. Hides were overlapped by an inch or more, and double stitched for strength.  One of Ireland's top harness makers oversaw the stitching, and taught them how to do both the traditional saddle stitch and a back stitch. He was a hard taskmaster, and would ruthlessly rip out someone's whole day's work if it wasn't up to his standards.  Because of the size of the hides, the saddle stitch required 2 people, one working inside the hull of the boat and the other outside!

Strongly recommend the above link - it's not a long read, and it's FASCINATING!

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by Sheilajeanne

[Klara]

1 hour ago, Rannoch said:

I love that book.  I couldn't figure out what sort of stitch the master saddler used to make the seams water tight.  Have you?  

...

If ten people start leather working, or hand spinning, I wager only one continues on with it after making one or two projects.  But their interest in it creates appreciation for the work.

 

As Sheilajeanne said, the water tightness didn't come from some special stitch. The type of stitch is not named, but Severin writes that they worked with an awl and two needles (held by two people, one inside the upside-down boat, one outside). Sounds like saddle stitching to me. What is also not mentioned, and really makes me wonder: How did the hides stay in place during sewing? 

Sadly, with handspinning you can't really "make a project" to get a taste of the craft (unlike felting - there I created two little bowls in an afternoon intro course). Handspinners either get bitten by the bug while producing something lumpy that can hardlybe called yarn, and is mostly unuseable, or not. Regarding leatherwork, unfortunately I am coming to the conclusion that prices of finished goods are much too high for something that's not too difficult and goes fairly quickly. I bartered a belt from a colleague - he got a crocheted mouse that took me an afternoon and a needle-felted cat head that was about an hour, I got a strip of leather with a number of holes, two snaps (I furnished the western-style buckle) and a running loop. The edges are not burnished, the flesh side is not treated in any way... I've always accepted the price of leather goods because I figured the material to be terribly expensive, but it isn't...

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by Klara
clarification

[Sheilajeanne]

9 minutes ago, Klara said:

Regarding leatherwork, unfortunately I am coming to the conclusion that prices of finished goods are much too high for something that's not too difficult and goes fairly quickly. I bartered a belt from a colleague - he got a crocheted mouse that took me an afternoon and a needle-felted cat head that was about an hour, I got a strip of leather with a number of holes, two snaps (I furnished the western-style buckle) and a running loop. The edges are not burnished, the flesh side is not treated in any way... I've always accepted the price of leather goods because I figured the material to be terribly expensive, but it isn't...

Klara, wait until you get into doing it properly - tooling the leather, skiving and burnishing the edges, and lining the flesh side! That takes time, a LOT of time, especially if you are hand sewing the lining!

And yes, if you read the account of how the two-person stitching was done, it definitely must have been a saddle stitch. The guy teaching them was a master harness maker - what else would it have been?

Edited April 21, 2021 by Sheilajeanne

[jrdunn]

9 hours ago, Sheilajeanne said:

Klara, fortunately craft knives aren't expensive!  I blew big bucks on a good quality round knife, only to find it's not the right tool for me! It also doesn't fit my hand. 

ARgh. If anyone wants one, feel free to PM me! 

Sheila,

I too felt the "pull" of the round knife.  I found a lot in Al Stohlman's "LEATHERCRAFT TOOLS, How to use them, How to sharpen them".  It covers how to fit it, how to use it and how to sharpen it.  It has helped me, although I'm certainly not proficient with it.  JM2C.

Jim

Edited April 22, 2021 by jrdunn
Spelling

[Klara]

@Sheilajeanne I don't doubt that one can spend huge amounts of time on leather goods. My  point is that the people in my crafts association don't. But they still sell their products for good money...

I have enormous respect for saddle makers, bag makers, shoe makers, tooling, beautiful finishing... But not for people who cut a strip off a hide, punch a few holes, set a few rivets and sell the result as a belt. My next belt I make myself

(Probably means I should buy a strap cutter...)

Regarding your round knife: If the main problem is the handle, it should be easy enough to adjust with a file and some sand paper. I just adapted an awl haft to fit my hand and it wasn't difficult (it was soft wood). And I really like rounded blades where I can cut by rocking the blade...(probably why I hate craft knives and box cutters)