Barrel Stave Clams-19th century

[480volt]

 

When the topic of old stitching/saddlers clams comes up, you will frequently hear the remark that “they sometimes used old barrel staves”. I have a quote from Salamans Dictionary of Leather-Working Tools that supports this and numerous claims from users on this site as well.

The reality is, the radius of barrel staves is such that they would be mostly usable for flat goods and the geometry is awkward at best. It’s my understanding that English saddlers tend to have their clams upright at the bench and closed with a strap down to a stirrup, and other trades may use a clam held between their legs. I haven’t been successful finding photos or drawings of either, using staves.

I may be tasked with making a clam authentic to mid-19th century London, and used by a member of the “deserving poor”.  This would not be a shop with a “By Royal Appointment” kind of clientele, and reusing old barrel staves would make sense. I’m sure I could get away with virtually anything, since there isn’t much documentation to contradict me, but it would nice to find some visual supporting evidence.

 

[billybopp]

I haven't heard of using barrel staves to make a pony before, but it makes sense.  Barrels were used to ship just about any and everything at one time, and they were essentially disposable in much the way that shipping pallets are today.  Many of today's woodworkers use pallet wood to make utility items for their shop if they have access to pallets.  If you look around, you may still be able to purchase wine barrels - some home improvement stores and plant nurseries sell them cut in half as planters.

- Bill

[fredk]

4 hours ago, billybopp said:

. . .  Barrels were used to ship just about any and everything at one time, and they were essentially disposable in much the way that shipping pallets are today. . . . 

Actually barrels were not disposable. There was a large return fee on them. No return and the customer was charged far more than what the barrel was worth. But  I can see how damaged or end-of-life barrels would have contributed staves to make other items.

PS. Up to the 1970s, a place in Belfast re-used end-of-life barrels to make items such as chairs.

[gary]

There is a Scottish company called 'Darach' (Scots Gaelic for oak) which currently produces household furnishings from old whisky barrels. Just in case anyone's interested.

[chrisash]

I understand that a cooper apprentice spend most of their apprenticeship just repairing broken barrels  as they were to valued to not repair. Also some smaller casks for use onboard ships would have far greater concave than the larger barrels like used for beer as they were often of a flatter design

Edited May 4, 2020 by chrisash

[billybopp]

8 hours ago, fredk said:

Actually barrels were not disposable. There was a large return fee on them. No return and the customer was charged far more than what the barrel was worth. But  I can see how damaged or end-of-life barrels would have contributed staves to make other items.

PS. Up to the 1970s, a place in Belfast re-used end-of-life barrels to make items such as chairs.

Good to know!   I had heard long ago that they were not usually returned.  I wonder if they were returned in more urban settings, and not so much rural.  It would be pretty expensive to return them empty via train or wagon.  Either way, the staves would make a very serviceable stitching pony!

- Bill

[fredk]

55 minutes ago, billybopp said:

Good to know!   I had heard long ago that they were not usually returned.  I wonder if they were returned in more urban settings, and not so much rural.  It would be pretty expensive to return them empty via train or wagon.  Either way, the staves would make a very serviceable stitching pony!

- Bill

As barrels were once the only means of packing they were easily dismantled. Knock off the rings and the staves fall apart. Good repackers wrapped a bit of cord round the staves to keep all from one barrel together, then they were packed into another empty barrel. You can get a lot of dismantled barrels into an empty one. Often train and wagon companies charged less for the empties. The rings were threaded on a length of rope. Then the barrels returned to the company of origin who passed them on to their cooper who re-assembled them. Everyone in trade paid a deposit on their barrels. Non-return and the cost came out of your deposits. 

[LumpenDoodle2]

7 hours ago, chrisash said:

I understand that a cooper apprentice spend most of their apprenticeship just repairing broken barrels  as they were to valued to not repair. Also some smaller casks for use onboard ships would have far greater concave than the larger barrels like used for beer as they were often of a flatter design

My great grandad was a master cooper, along with several siblings, and sons who were also coopers.    The trade has kept going here in Scotland due to the whiskey trade, but massively reduced compered with g. grandad’s day.

The reduced trade means that prices of barrels are now higher, that, and the fact they are also much sought after as cool decor.   Saying that, I live 10 minuted from a huge whiskey bond, and the size of the wooden barrels stored there, never fails to impress.   Maybe someone could chaff them for some staves, and build bespoke clams.   The ancient clam I use is a good 3.5 foot long, and I have sawn a couple of inches off to make it more comfortable to use.

Image not mine, and no idea if actually made from barrel staves.

Edited May 4, 2020 by LumpenDoodle2