Care and feeding of Rough Out leather

[2Hill]

I recently completed my first every Rough-out project. Since the hide used has been in my shed for more than twenty years. But still in pretty good condition, sun darkened in places but not dried out.  I thought it would be a good idea to apply some conditioner. Since I did not want the leather to darken up any more than it already has. I obtained some Bick 4 which is advertised as NOT darkening finished leather. When reading the directions I found the warning "Do not use on suede, roughout, distressed, napped or any pre-treated leather"

Due to my job as a Diesel Mechanic. I have found that no matter how thoroughly or often I was my hands. I will leave dark fingerprints all over my work if I do not clean and seal the leather before I start stitching. I used a 50/50 mix of "Leathercraft Clear Sealer" to apply a light coat. I have read that Neatsfoot oil can be used sparingly on roughout but have also read that NFO will darken Leather. So now my question is; can I safely use the Bick 4 or not. And how do I clean it when that becomes necessary.

The project was a pair of lined holsters and a money belt so "oiling" the grain side is not possible.

[2Hill]

There have been 97 views of this thread so far without a single reply. Have I used the wrong title. Or is it just that no one can answer my question? Or am I just not being clear what my question is?

[YinTx]

Probably not a lot of experience putting Bick 4 on the rough/flesh side of leather.  Pure NFO used sparingly will darken the leather, but it should lighten up some over time.  The best way to answer this will be for you to take samples of the leather you are using, and experiment.  Every piece of leather responds differently, and any conjecture on my part as to how a 20 year old side might respond to different treatments would be folly.

YinTx

[BigSiouxSaddlery]

I revised my answer somewhat as Yintx replied while I was composing my reply.  I'll start by saying I normally treat roughout like any other leather, which is a liberal coat or coats of neatsfoot, depending on the project.  However, let me add that I do not build holsters, or at least not very often. Using Bick 4 will not cause harm to the leather, but I suspect it will leave a very smooth, slick feel/look to the roughout.  Anything that will "seal" the roughout to prevent you leaving dark fingerprints will tend to do the same.  My advice is to do a practice piece on a scrap of the same leather you are using for your project.

[2Hill]

Thanks guys. I've got a couple of pieces of scrap left from the side so will give it a test on them.

On 6/1/2020 at 1:30 AM, YinTx said:

and any conjecture on my part as to how a 20 year old side might respond to different treatments would be folly.

I was surprised how good a condition the leather was in when I started using it. It has been in my shed for about twenty years but; I think my brother bought it sometime in the 80s. So it's age is probably nearer to forty than twenty.

[Bant]

2Hill, I just took a look at this and may have a product for you to consider.  I just took delivery on a custom made pair of "rough out" boots.  They recommended and sent along a container of Skidmore's Leather Cream(www.skidmores.com).  I haven't used it yet and I have no association with them but take a look, might just do for what you need.

[Silverd]

On ‎5‎/‎25‎/‎2020 at 3:34 AM, 2Hill said:

I recently completed my first every Rough-out project. Since the hide used has been in my shed for more than twenty years. But still in pretty good condition, sun darkened in places but not dried out.  I thought it would be a good idea to apply some conditioner. Since I did not want the leather to darken up any more than it already has. I obtained some Bick 4 which is advertised as NOT darkening finished leather. When reading the directions I found the warning "Do not use on suede, roughout, distressed, napped or any pre-treated leather"

Due to my job as a Diesel Mechanic. I have found that no matter how thoroughly or often I was my hands. I will leave dark fingerprints all over my work if I do not clean and seal the leather before I start stitching. I used a 50/50 mix of "Leathercraft Clear Sealer" to apply a light coat. I have read that Neatsfoot oil can be used sparingly on roughout but have also read that NFO will darken Leather. So now my question is; can I safely use the Bick 4 or not. And how do I clean it when that becomes necessary.

The project was a pair of lined holsters and a money belt so "oiling" the grain side is not possible.

I die then spray a sealer on a lot of my work pieces to avoid finger prints or cross contamination of glue etc.  Since using this process my scrap rate has decreased significantly.  

 

Silverd

Edited June 3, 2020 by Silverd

[johnv474]

If you want to you can clean the leather with saddle soap and WHILE iT iS STILL DAMP, apply Lexol conditioner by misting it or using a DAMP sponge, putting the Lexol on it, and wiping the leather.

It is important for both the leather and the sponge to be damp before applying Lexol (just a light coat, which can be repeated the next day but no sooner).

Lexol will not darken your leather unless you slather it on.  I don't know what is in Bick 4 but unless you know that it has NO waxes I wouldn't put it on roughout because it will ruin the nap.  It's like using hair gel on your hair--it won't look normal anymore. 

That effect on the nap is why so many conditioners recommend against use on suede or roughout.  The suede or roughout doesn't know that it is roughout so will absorb it all just the same.

[brainmonster]

Sorry for the long post.

I was going to create a new topic about this but I just found this one. Does anyone know how to fix an uneven nap on suede?

I think everyone hates suede/rough out and nobody uses it much these days, because nobody knows how to take care if it properly and it gets ruined easily. It doesn't seem to hold up well over time.

I had a suede leather jacket awhile ago that I tried to clean, the nap was very uneven and it was dried out.

So basically I sprayed leather conditioner on it and brushed it with a polyester/horsehide brush and that seemed to help a lot. The leather looked a lot richer after that and a few layers of conditioner/brushing and the coloring was a lot more even.

However my main problem was that the conditioner droplets were very large and didn't really set well, and it gunked up the spray bottle and the brush didn't seem to fix the nap very well, even with VERY hard brushing.

I even tried fine grit sandpaper on ruined suede  and I feel like it made things even worse...

I feel like you may need a metal brush to actually fix the nap, I haven't tried that, has anyone had luck? Polyester and horsehair brushes seem to have little or no effect.

I just bought some split veg-tan leather and want to make it nice for making a bag, but I never figured out how to restore the suede/roughout "luxurious" feel that comes from new suede goods.

Also if anyone has any advice on treating/finishing veg-tan split leather after dying also, it would help. I plan on mixing some water with regular eco-flo leather dye and dying it mahogany, then trying to finish it with carnauba oil. The regular eco-flo satin finishes don't seem like they would work on roughout since they are acrylic based, it seems like it would ruin the leather.

 

 

[johnv474]

Suede brushes are typically nylon bristles (more aggressive) or brass (curiously, less aggressive).  It requires some pretty stiff bristles to fix the nap.

 

At shoe stores you can buy a "suede and nubuck kit", which contains an eraser-type cleaner that helps remove dust and dirt, and then a brush to restore the nap.  Fiebings makes one, and it usually is about $4.

 

To clean suede or roughout, there are some specialty cleaners such as Lincoln EZ cleaner.  My favorite, because it is an awesome all-purpose cleaner for delicates, is Angelus Foam-Tex.  Great stuff!

 

There also exist " Suede Renew" products, which are to help restore the color as well as protect or moisturize (I don't remember which).  It is also available in Clear or Neutral (again, I don't remember which).  Moneysworth & Best is one brand.

 

Generally, they recommend using suede-specific dyes for suede or nubuck.  (Note that roughout just means "flesh side out"  and is otherwise just regular leather).  I don't know the difference but they say regular spirit-based dyes will ruin the nap.  Fiebings, amond others, have a line of suede and nubuck dyes that work well.

 

I do not suggest spraying any cleaner or conditioner directly onto the veg split.  Even something as trustworthy as Lexol (or worse, something like Mink Oil) tends to leave "splatter"  marks from the droplets soaking in very fast when they first hit the leather.  Eventually, they will dissipate and fade but it takes a while.  I would suggest using a damp sponge or a damp soft brush like a horsehair brush to apply the product.

 

If it were me, I would use Fiebings liquid glycerin saddle soap as a light cleaner and moisturizer to get the veg split damp and softened.   I would let it soak in and dissipate for an hour or so, or overnight.  I would then use something like Kelly's wax-free leather lotion or Lexol to condition.  I suggest NOT using beeswax, carnauba, or any wax on the outside.  You can apply lightly to the inside, but wax will make the nap stick together, like hair gel does.  

 

Note also, waxing suede/split is regularly done, and can look really great, BUT you specifically wanted to keep that nap/luxurious feel.  Waxed suede looks a bit like a pullup leather in that it shows scratches and stuff (which fade and can look great as it develops patina).  The scratches can be buffed away because you are warming and respreading the wax.

 

Instead of wax, I suggest using a spray-type waterproofer and stain repellent and I would use a specific one.  Do NOT use a silicone waterproofing spray because it will spot.  I suggest tracking down Tarrago Nano Waterproofing spray.  It has a silver can with a blue cap, IIRC.  It's about ten bucks a can but look it up on Youtube--it's pretty awesome.  If Tarrago Nano is not available then Moneysworth & Best also make a Nano (smaller molecules, better penetration). 

 

I would recommend doing two coats inside and out, drying overnight between coats, immediately after completing the bag or after the pieces are ready for final assembly.  This will help protect them from stains and water spotting.  Think of it like Scotch-gard, but for suede/split/nubuck (and also leather).  If you get caught in a downpour, I would let the bag dry naturally with plenty of air (but no heat!) over a day or two and then touch up with a little more spray.

Hope this helps!