A better black?

[LiftPig]

I make a lot of black items for firefighter gear.  I've been using Angelus Jet Black cut 50/50 with rubbing alcohol, allow to dry fully (I usually air brush), oil with a single heavy coat of Neatsfoot, allow to dry, then a coat of Leather balm w Atom wax.  I'm still getting a lot of rub off.  The dye looks nice and the leather is nice and supple but it seems I can't get the dye to stay where it belongs.  Anyone have some advice on a different product I can use to hold the dye down?

I can't use Feibings Pro Dye because I'm in California...unless someone knows a retailer that's willing to sell it to me.

[courtney]

Don’t cut it with alcohol and stop airbrushing it?

[battlemunky]

Sounds like a job for....vinagroon!

Get some steel wool and white vinegar. You may want to also get some acetone to rinse the steel wool in to remove oils. Let it dry. Chuck a hunk into a jar and cover it with vinegar. Cover it loosely, leaving some vent. Check back in a few days and it should be good to go. It actually reacts with the tannins in the leather and changes the leather color, not just adding color to it.

Give it a quick rinse in some baking soda water and then clean tap water and allow to dry. Then proceed as if you would normally.

It has worked for thousands of years so far.

[tsunkasapa]

Buff the hell out of it BEFORE oiling or applying the finish

[LiftPig]

2 hours ago, battlemunky said:

Sounds like a job for....vinagroon!

Get some steel wool and white vinegar. You may want to also get some acetone to rinse the steel wool in to remove oils. Let it dry. Chuck a hunk into a jar and cover it with vinegar. Cover it loosely, leaving some vent. Check back in a few days and it should be good to go. It actually reacts with the tannins in the leather and changes the leather color, not just adding color to it.

Give it a quick rinse in some baking soda water and then clean tap water and allow to dry. Then proceed as if you would normally.

It has worked for thousands of years so far.

Hell I’ll try this just for the fun of it. 

[chuck123wapati]

11 hours ago, LiftPig said:

Hell I’ll try this just for the fun of it. 

its what I use, Blacker than coal, cheap so you can make enough to dip your products. 

[jcuk]

Is there reason you don't purchase leather that has been already tanned black.

 

Help this helps

JCUK

[LiftPig]

1 hour ago, jcuk said:

Is there reason you don't purchase leather that has been already tanned black.

Cost mostly.  

An undyed side is about 25% less expensive.  If I can't find a good way to get black leather that is color fast, I'll have to buy pre-dyed black and adjust my prices a bit.  

[battlemunky]

13 hours ago, LiftPig said:

Hell I’ll try this just for the fun of it. 

In complete honesty, it is pretty fun. I think everyone that is even remotely interested should experiment with the 'groon. It's almost free its so cheap and it works really well.

And not to complicate things but you can limit expose of the steel wool to vinegar a bit and vary the intensity of the blacking that occurs. I had this super cool gray in an experimental batch once.

A fully saturated solution of vinagroon is great. If it isn't fully saturated there can be some smell of either iron or some vinegar. You'll know its "done" when you can add more steel wool and it no longer reacts. That is the point where the smell seems to be as neutral as it gets. Make some practice pieces first!

Post pics too. I love me some 'groony goodness.

[mike02130]

Spend the extra money and buy black leather and it'll save you in time and work.  I used to buy undyed veg tanned shoulders.  I've probably bought from more places than not.  One time its good, the next I want to scream.  I got tired of getting stuck with scarred up bug bitten leather; tanned god knows where in the world.  For me, its worth spending a few bucks more to save time and frustration.  

I had the same problem with Angelus.  I prefer Fieblings.  

I tried an airbrush but didn't like filling and refilling it and the air quality and all the prep work.  When I do use dye I use a "Preval" sprayer.  They work great and don't atomize the dye as much as an airbrush.  I don't even bother with any protection.  No clean up is necessary with the Preval.  I have a few that I use for different colors.  The sprayer even screws onto the Fieblings bottles (after snipping an 1/8th" off the tube.).  I just leave and store the sprayer with the jar of dye and don't even bother cleaning it out.  There's just no need with alcohol dye.

Funny, I have some vinagroon in stock.  I use it on oak to turn it black (ebonize)

[chuck123wapati]

1 hour ago, mike02130 said:

 

Funny, I have some vinagroon in stock.  I use it on oak to turn it black (ebonize)

yup tannic acid in oak, oak is used for veg tanning leather. 

[Professor]

An old method used on police gear was to first dye the leather dark blue. Then if there is any wear through the blue acts as a color killer countering the ruddy hue of the leather underneath. The wear through points aren't noticeable for some time so you can touch it up later. The blue makes for attractive highlighting when seen in bright daylight.

Black liquid silicone boot polish works fine for protecting the surfaces.