Wilcox and Gibbs?

[ThoughtFission]

Hi,

I am about to start a new, small, leather business focused on things like leather bags, belts, wallets and watch straps.

I have narrowed down my first machine to one of three machines, all Wilcox and Gibbs; the 302, the 335 and the 8b.

Is there anyone here that could tell me the difference between these machines? The price variance is quite significant and I'm on an extremely tight budget. All machines are new.
 

Thanks,

Grant

 

[jimi]

Could you post some pictures of the machines??

[Matt S]

W&G are now rebadgers of Chinese machines. (Not sure if they're a zombie company that died and had someone resurrect their name or if they're the same company as before, just... atrophied a bit. Or a lot.)

The 335 is a clone of the venerable Pfaff 335 (old casting IIRC) -- a small cylinder machine popular for lighter leather articles and the 8b a clone of the Seiko CW-8B, itself a product improved Singer 153W104. Singer 153s are large cylinder machines popular for slightly heavier articles, but not suitable for heavy-duty leather items like saddles, tool belts, holsters etc. Both types are good choices for your purposes, though the larger cylinder arm can get in the way on some jobs. Not sure about the 302.

Being copies of popular designs any sewing machine tech will be able to fix, service and adjust a 335 or CW8 type design, and there will be a wide range of parts and accessories available for the foreseeable future.

[Northmount]

@ThoughtFission Moved your post to Leather Sewing Machines.

Tom

 

[ThoughtFission]

Sorry, newbie mistake.

[ThoughtFission]

3 hours ago, Matt S said:

W&G are now rebadgers of Chinese machines. (Not sure if they're a zombie company that died and had someone resurrect their name or if they're the same company as before, just... atrophied a bit. Or a lot.)

The 335 is a clone of the venerable Pfaff 335 (old casting IIRC) -- a small cylinder machine popular for lighter leather articles and the 8b a clone of the Seiko CW-8B, itself a product improved Singer 153W104. Singer 153s are large cylinder machines popular for slightly heavier articles, but not suitable for heavy-duty leather items like saddles, tool belts, holsters etc. Both types are good choices for your purposes, though the larger cylinder arm can get in the way on some jobs. Not sure about the 302.

Being copies of popular designs any sewing machine tech will be able to fix, service and adjust a 335 or CW8 type design, and there will be a wide range of parts and accessories available for the foreseeable future.

Wow, you really know your stuff! Thanks. Do you have any suggestions for a first machine that is reliable, not expensive and can handle the items described? Are things like the Janome HD2200, HD9 or inger 4423 worth looking at? Assumed they're not up to the task. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. There is a 29k available locally in good condition for 450 but I was really hoping to get something powered and a bit more flexible.

[Northmount]

1 hour ago, ThoughtFission said:

Sorry, newbie mistake. 

That is not a problem.  I moved one the other day to a wrong forum, so had to go back and move it again!

Tom

[Matt S]

57 minutes ago, ThoughtFission said:

Thanks. Do you have any suggestions for a first machine that is reliable, not expensive and can handle the items described? Are things like the Janome HD2200, HD9 or inger 4423 worth looking at? Assumed they're not up to the task. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. There is a 29k available locally in good condition for 450 but I was really hoping to get something powered and a bit more flexible.

Those Janome and Singer machines you mention are great, I'm sure, for sewing cushions, jeans and the odd set of curtains but not really for leather. It'd be like carrying a ton of gravel in a Smart car -- if you can get it to fit it might not move, and even if it does move it would be making a hell of a racket, break something catastrophic, and let the magic smoke out. A 29K is really for repairing and modifying boots and clothing -- quite useful for certain jobs but the compromises that make them good for those tasks make them not very good at others.

As to recommendations... not really! It depends on your budget, comfort with machines of any sort, and your local market. Avoid anything that's not been manufactured for many years because parts and accessories are often rare. Look for a triple-feed machine with reverse and a digital/servo motor. A good quality cylinder arm machine, like the 335 and CW8 types mentioned above, would be a good starting point. There's nothing inherently wrong with Chinese-made machines so long as they're setup and checked properly by a dealer who knows what they're doing. I just don't like them because I had some bad experiences with a few, and have been lucky and patient enough to get some gently used machines from top quality manufacturers. I'd expect to pay around £1000-2000 for a brand new Chinese machine like I've discussed, which is probably a similar amount in €.