New member from the UK

[Raindog951]

Hi Folks,

     Thought I'd introduce myself after lurking for a few weeks.

I'm in the UK, and just started on this leather crafting journey. I've always admired and desired products made in good quality leather, and never really been able to afford them. I've also always dabbled in making stuff (ships in bottles, a bit of wood carving, drawing and painting etc).

    I'm also into knives, guns and other fun stuff, and saw a picture of a finely made Sap a few months ago. Then it struck me that I could make one....So I started investigating leather crafting, spent a few hundred pounds on tools, and waded into making a Sap. It turned out Ok, so I showed a man at work, and he immediately wanted one, so I got some nice Veg Tanned and made him one. He gave me £30 for that Here's a pic.....

       Now I want to get away from Saps and into bags, wallets and belts. Currently pondering various patterns and template materials, and saving some money for a big lump of Veg Tanned :-)

       This forum has proved invaluable, and trememndous fun reading all the posts!

 

 

Untitled.bmp

[Retswerb]

Welcome aboard, @Raindog951! Sounds like you’ve fallen down the rabbit hole. Looking forward to seeing more from you here.

[Raindog951]

Thanks Retswerb! I think I definitely have, as my studio flat now resembles a workshop, complete with bench drill, and a carpet covered in leather strands :-)

     And I love it......

[Matt S]

Welcome, @Raindog951! Whereabouts in the UK are you? A fair few of us on here these days.

I've sent you a PM.

[Raindog951]

Hi @Matt S ! Thanks for the welcome. I'm in Bournemouth. I see you're in London, I've lived in Dagenham and Stratford, and sometimes miss the place :-)  Can't see the PM yet, but it might take some time to get through.

[kiwican]

Nice sap. What is the metal you used and welcome to the most enjoyable and frustrating hobby you will ever have !

[toxo]

3 hours ago, Raindog951 said:

Hi Folks,

     Thought I'd introduce myself after lurking for a few weeks.

I'm in the UK, and just started on this leather crafting journey. I've always admired and desired products made in good quality leather, and never really been able to afford them. I've also always dabbled in making stuff (ships in bottles, a bit of wood carving, drawing and painting etc).

    I'm also into knives, guns and other fun stuff, and saw a picture of a finely made Sap a few months ago. Then it struck me that I could make one....So I started investigating leather crafting, spent a few hundred pounds on tools, and waded into making a Sap. It turned out Ok, so I showed a man at work, and he immediately wanted one, so I got some nice Veg Tanned and made him one. He gave me £30 for that Here's a pic.....

       Now I want to get away from Saps and into bags, wallets and belts. Currently pondering various patterns and template materials, and saving some money for a big lump of Veg Tanned :-)

       This forum has proved invaluable, and trememndous fun reading all the posts!

 

 

Untitled.bmp

Welcome Raindog. You'll get lots of help here. My ears pricked up when I saw the word sap. It's illegal to carry a sap in the UK or so i'm told. At least I disguised mine as a coin purse. 

[Raindog951]

Hi @kiwican ! Thanks for the welcome. I used lead shot, of VERY tiny size (pinhead sized) mixed with evostick contact cement. Filled up each moulded hollow and let it set, then glued the two halves together.

 

Hi @toxo ! You're right. Illegal to carry outdoors, and MAYBE legal if kept indoors. I'm currently searching the internet to confirm I'm Ok having it at home. If not, then sadly I'll have to remove the lead shot and make it a Coin purse :-) !! You've done a great job on that purse. It looks like it holds enough coins to stun an Ox!

[fredk]

Caveat: GB and N.I. laws can be different. Its illegal to own a sap in N.I. But somebody needs to know about it first

[Raindog951]

Hi @fredk Yes, that sums it up nicely :-)

[fredk]

A little tale.

I had a friend a long time ago who was a professional photographer in London. He still is. He used to carry small canvas money bags filled with pebbles to hang on his tripod as weights. More than once he used one of those bags to whack a mugger over the head. Met arrested my friend for using a 'sap'.   First time we'd heard that word. Case was dropped though. That was way back when you couldn't use any force to defend yourself.

I was once on the verge of being arrested for using a 'sap'. I used a money bag full of £1 coins to whack an armed robber about the body and head. I laid into him rightly.  Thats when I found out owning a sap is illegal in N.I.

[Matt S]

Just spoken with a friend who is a currently serving policeman. Neither of us can find saps or similar implement on the "naughty list" so they would appear quite legal to own, make, sell etc. (this side of the Bristol Channel @fredk!) but they clearly count as "made or adapted to cause injury" and therefore not legal for general carry without "good reason or lawful authority".

It goes without saying that I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV. The above is simply two chaps' personal opinions.

@Raindog951 going back to your original post, I like hardboard for making larger templates. It's easily cut, drilled and shaped even using basic hand tools; you can layout directly on it with pen or pencil, or glue a paper pattern to it; it's nice and grippy on the back (doesn't slide around like acrylic); it's dimensionally stable so long as you keep it dry; and it's dead cheap -- an 8x4 is usually under a tenner, and if you ask at your local timber yard you can usually get big offcuts for pennies.

[fredk]

Maybe if we looked under the regular UK name; a cosh

There is a reverse to this. There is a list of what 'weapons' are legal to carry, if its not on the list then its illegal

[Matt S]

2 minutes ago, fredk said:

Maybe if we looked under the regular UK name; a cosh

There is a reverse to this. There is a list of what 'weapons' are legal to carry, if its not on the list then its illegal

"cosh" doesn't appear in the relevant Act, nor the Schedules to the Act (we looked at that, as well as "blackjack"). It's pretty short list of what's outright banned TBH. About the only blunt instruments on the list are fixed and friction-locked batons (truncheons).

If you can find such a list of "allowed weapons" I would be interested to read it, but honestly I doubt that such a thing exists from any reputable source.

[fredk]

39 minutes ago, Matt S said:

If you can find such a list of "allowed weapons" I would be interested to read it, but honestly I doubt that such a thing exists from any reputable source.

The secretary of the historical presentation group I was in had the list. An official Gov list. We had the complete list but only required the part on bladed weapons. It said afair eg. a dirk; as part of the traditional Scots dress, /  single edged blade of less than 4 inches length, /  chef's knives; in conjunction with work, to and from place of work / that sort of thing. It ran to several pages. Cosh, baton, night-sticks and other were in the blunt instrument section. Even the PSNI sometimes asked us for a copy of the list. Individuals who knew us had recourse to use our info

as before; caveat, GB and N.I. laws can differ

[Matt S]

1 hour ago, fredk said:

The secretary of the historical presentation group I was in had the list. An official Gov list. We had the complete list but only required the part on bladed weapons. It said afair eg. a dirk; as part of the traditional Scots dress, /  single edged blade of less than 4 inches length, /  chef's knives; in conjunction with work, to and from place of work / that sort of thing. It ran to several pages. Cosh, baton, night-sticks and other were in the blunt instrument section. Even the PSNI sometimes asked us for a copy of the list. Individuals who knew us had recourse to use our info

as before; caveat, GB and N.I. laws can differ

 Well you can't get much more official than that! How specific was it? Plenty of guidance on bladed articles, often from major police forces/services available over here but not a bean have I found regarding coshes/saps/blackjacks.

I wonder if anyone from a reenactment group from GB has a similar list, or some other specific guidance regarding blunt weapons?

[Raindog951]

Thanks to all for the information. I can rest a bit easier in my bed tonight, knowing that my project won't land me in the slammer!

       Time to make something more wholesome now  

[kiwican]

Saw these for sale today for 40 dollars Canadian each. I say make em and sell! get some of that wholesome cash...This hobby is like a drug and you're gonna need a way to fund your new habit

[chrisash]

I doubt it would be considered a weapon in the UK if it was used as intended filled with money and you did not have another pocket full of change as well. never heard of a walking stick being used to defend yourself, being classed as a weapon, but probably more effective than a cosh

To use as a cosh would be very dangerous if hitting someone on the head as easily lead to a manslaughter or murder charge, as heads can be very thin and not absorb much unlike those pistol whipped cowboys

ps on sale on Wish and etsy at £5.0 thought of buying or making one as a good way to carry small change, but my coshing or saping days are over with old age

 

[zuludog]

Have a browse through YouTube, several channels offer patterns & templates for wallets, including JH Leather, Nigel Armitage, and Ian Atkinson. Similarly for belts and other items

For template material I use artist's/photographer's mounting board; from The Range or your local art store; could also use breakfast cereal packets

I use cereal packets to make mock - ups of items, to get an idea of what the final article will look like; sequence of construction, and so on

Do you know there is a British knife making & collecting forum? www.edgematters.uk It is subscription but it's only £5 pa via Paypal, which is more of a screening for serious users really

Speaking of cosh's years ago a friend was a steward/marshal at events like rock music festivals, football matches, and so on. He used to keep the crowd in order with a rolled up newspaper.......but it was rolled up round a chair leg.

Edited July 25, 2020 by zuludog

[toxo]

1 hour ago, zuludog said:

....but it was rolled up round a chair leg.

[toxo]

On 7/21/2020 at 9:48 AM, Raindog951 said:

       Now I want to get away from Saps and into bags, wallets and belts. Currently pondering various patterns and template materials, and saving some money for a big lump of Veg Tanned :-)

 

Many on here know that I like Dieselpunk.Ro (Tony See) and I'll tell you why. I have no affiliation to the guy whatsoever, I just like the way he goes about things and he has a tremendous understated sense of humourand my attraction to his world is strange when you consider that I have two sewing machines and I very much want to use them and yet all of Tony's designs are for hand stitching. He has created a great facebook page with interaction from everyone and if you ask him a question he usually answers in minutes not hours. (And I detest F/B but I always check it now)

His designs are not for everyone but I'd be surprised if you don't find something in his portfolio. His prices are reasonable and he gives away many freebies to his followers.

The whole process is easy and every project is accompanied by a YouTube video that covers everything from the printout to the last stitch.

The purists won't like that he uses hole punches rather than stitching chisels but there's nothing stopping you if that's the way you want to go. 

I always print out on cardstock and after using for the first time you have a ready made template and whats more, the second go around is so much quicker because the punch just falls into the holes.

This is the first leather project of any kind that I did using the Motoko 3 pattern. It took me a while but there was nothing difficult in it. I won't put up a link. He should be easy enough to find but pm me if you can't.

[Raindog951]

Quote

Saw these for sale today for 40 dollars Canadian each. I say make em and sell! get some of that wholesome cash...This hobby is like a drug and you're gonna need a way to fund your new habit

@kiwican  True! Once I get some more leather I might make a few 'Coin Purse' types. Much more legal than the finished and lead filled Cosh.....

Quote

ps on sale on Wish and etsy at £5.0 thought of buying or making one as a good way to carry small change, but my coshing or saping days are over with old age

@chrisash  It's never too late Chris! Treat it as exercise. Bash the postman every morning till you get the hang of it. I know what you mean, though. I'd probably put my back out if I swung a Cosh at anyone. I use a stick to get around, a nice Blackthorn. That's probably enough to deter any muggers.

Quote

For template material I use artist's/photographer's mounting board; from The Range or your local art store; could also use breakfast cereal packets

I use cereal packets to make mock - ups of items, to get an idea of what the final article will look like; sequence of construction, and so on

Do you know there is a British knife making & collecting forum? www.edgematters.uk It is subscription but it's only £5 pa via Paypal, which is more of a screening for serious users really

Speaking of cosh's years ago a friend was a steward/marshal at events like rock music festivals, football matches, and so on. He used to keep the crowd in order with a rolled up newspaper.......but it was rolled up round a chair leg. 

@zuludog Thanks for the tips, zuludog! That mounting card is good stuff, and the art shop down the road sells packs of 10 or so for a pound. I'll check out edgematters, always interested in forums on knives. Love that newspaper trick......Reminds me of the quote from Hitch Hikers Guide "Drinking a Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster is like being smashed in the head with a slice of lemon......Wrapped around a large Gold Brick".

@toxo Yes! I like a lot of Dieselpunk.Ro's stuff. I intend to get some of his patterns, including that handsome Motoko 3 bag. I shocked it was your first project!  That's amazing! And very encouraging. I got myself a bunch of hole punches a week or two back. The smallest is pretty tiny. I'm sure I could use that method without weakening the bag structure. VERY excited now. If I can make that bag I'll put pics up.

     Thanks everyone! Very eager to get some sewing done :-)  

[zuludog]

I know we're getting off topic, but I thought i'd tell you a snippet about my friend with the newspaper

He only did his stewarding at weekends. his normal day job was a primary school teacher

[fredk]

9 hours ago, zuludog said:

Speaking of cosh's years ago a friend was a steward/marshal at events like rock music festivals, football matches, and so on. He used to keep the crowd in order with a rolled up newspaper.......but it was rolled up round a chair leg.

I used to use a newspaper wrapped around a piece of lead pipe to tap on the heads of  'nice doggies', who weren't, when I was a postie. A few taps now and then, nowt too hard, and the dogs got the message. 

I use cereal boxes as well for patterns. Sometimes I print a pdf pattern out on thin card from Hobbycraft or £world, and if necessary paste it with Copydex to cereal box card to thicken it up.

I use a walking stick with a large brass knob grip on it. Without actually having to use it its seen off a few trouble makers and made a few others change their minds. I let them know about the brass knob just by dropping the stick on the floor and as I pick it up I tap the floor a couple of times. They get the message.

I have a couple of Dieselpunks patterns. He does a good instructional video to go with them too