Seiko ch-8b

[AMule123]

Hi all,

I tried to post an absolute essay of a question yesterday and it didn’t work, probably cos it was too long haha

Ill summarise;

Im looking at getting a 441 clone, to replace the handstitching on my 6oz leather bags.

being in Australia I was looking at a cowboy 4500 from Queensland. But as I’m in Sydney I was looking for a local supplier and found a used seiko ch-8b with a brand new servo and speed reducer, from a sewing machine supplier 20minutes from me, for slightly less than the cowboy would work out with shipping.

i just met the guy and his seiko and it runs beautifully with the leather and threads I’d like to use. 
 

heres the question, with a limited (3month) warranty on the seiko, am I better off with a longer warranty on a brand new machine?

 

he couldn’t tell me how old the seiko was, but it looked great.

thanks in advance!

you guys have already been such help!

 

Sam

 

 

[Matt S]

FWIW Seikos are very well built machines. It takes a lot of use to wear one of them out. One of mine had 20 years of factory use and 10 years of disuse before it came to me, and I don't think it's missed a beat ever since.

My preference, all other things being equal, would be for an older machine from a premium manufacturer over a newer Chinese-built machine. I'm sure that there are many well made Chinese machines, especially those that have been set up and warranted by respectable dealers, but I've got my fingers burned a few times and I have a taste for quality tools -- I have been spoiled by using Singer, Adler and Seiko! Consider also that that Seiko has probably depreciated in value as far as it's going to any time soon, whereas if you sell it the day after you buy it that Cowboy may have dropped 20%.

Are you likely to want much in the way of accessories for your machine? Flat bed tables, specialist feet, edge guides etc. I ask as there is far fewer aftermarket stuff available for the CH8 than the 441 type.

[Ferg]

 This is a photo of a Seiko I sold recently. Great machine except I think my Servo was a dab too small for it.

Used it for purses mostly and some belts also. #138 thread is what it likes most. Don't believe I tried any 207 with it. Will stitch 7 or 8 oz. of leather all day long.

Much over that really makes it chug. Remember, I said I think my servo was too small. Well built, the Cowboy is pretty much a carbon copy. I sold mine for about $1400 if I remember correctly.

The above machine was a CH-8B-Ld

Ferg

Edited July 23, 2020 by Ferg

[Wizcrafts]

1 hour ago, Ferg said:

he above machine was a CH-8B-Ld

Ferg, I believe you had a CW, not a CH. The CH is a 441 clone of the Juki TSC-441. Yours is a clone of a Singer 153.

http://www.seiko-sewing.co.jp/en/products/cwseries/

[Ferg]

You are correct Wiz, I found another photo showing the "CW".

Ferg

[AMule123]

Thanks all! Appreciate your responses.

yeah I’ve been leaning toward the seiko, but the available attachments are a concern to me. I imagine I can make a flatbed attachment, and the dealer has offered me a guide, but it’s the swing out variety, as opposed to the drop down, which does limit its usefulness to me. He has also modified the feet, removing the right hand one and shortening and narrowing the left one, but also has a spare set of original feet.

and finally it has a slotted throat plate instead of the original bottom feeder, apparently for saddlers to save the underside from marking. What limitation would this impose?

What kind of specialist feet are available for the 441 that would not be for the seiko? 

thanks again!

Sam

[dikman]

Sam, you mentioned #138 thread, if that's what you want to use then the Seiko will probably be the better machine. The 441 will be overkill for your bags. Realistically, unless you intend to make holsters, heavy gunbelts and do harness work a 441 will be too much machine and you'll probably end up fighting it when sewing lighter work. I agree with Matt, Seiko are solid well-built machines, when I decided to reduce the number of machines I had I sold the Singers and kept the Seiko.

As for the 3 month warranty if you start using the machine you should soon discover if there are any issues within that warranty period.

edit:you posted just as I did. I fitted a generic drop-down guide to mine, it was simply a matter of making a suitable bracket to attach it (nothing fancy).

Another edit: I just realised I had the wrong model in mind (I should have looked it up before commenting - dumb!). The Seiko is pretty much their version of the 441. However, if you've tried it and it sews what you want then that's the one to get. I have a 4500, bought from the Qld folks, and I'm happy with the quality of the machine but the Seiko will definitely be a better quality machine. Plus you have the advantage of someone nearby if you do have questions/issues. And it's all set up and working.

Edited July 23, 2020 by dikman

[AMule123]

Thanks Dikman! 
yeah I’d considered that a 441 might be overkill, as I’m not planning on making saddles any time soon, but I’d rather have more machine than less, and the bags that I’ll be making will at the very top have about 12-13mm thickness, so it will give me room to move up, without getting a different machine. 
I do make wallet and other small leathergoods, but I plan on continuing to hand stitch those, it’s just gonna be the bigger bags that I can’t see myself handstitching for much longer!

also I’d like to use a size 207 thread for detail stitching, to somewhat replicate hand stitching.

good to hear re the drop down guide! Do you have a photo of yours? 
 

thanks

Sam

[dikman]

I'll take one later and post it here. It's not difficult, just a matter of cutting a suitable piece to line up with the holes in the machine and those on the guide. I had to do the same with the 4500. Does the 4500 come complete - table , motor and speed reducer? I assume you're dealing with the same people I dealt with (Jess)?

[AMule123]

22 minutes ago, dikman said:

I'll take one later and post it here. It's not difficult, just a matter of cutting a suitable piece to line up with the holes in the machine and those on the guide. I had to do the same with the 4500. Does the 4500 come complete - table , motor and speed reducer? I assume you're dealing with the same people I dealt with (Jess)?

Thank you! That would be greatly appreciated! Yeah I think it’s Jess, and yes comes complete. 

[dikman]

Sam, a couple of photos of the Seiko and the 4500 with drop down guides. The Seiko is a piece of aluminium, the right hand screw is the supplied mounting screw, the second one is a longer one I had to go into the existing mounting hole and the third is the other supplied screw, tapped into the aluminium.

The 4500 is simply an L-shaped piece of aluminium ('cos the mounting holes on the machine are vertical) and a couple of screws and nuts to hold the guide. Pretty simple really.

 

Edited July 24, 2020 by dikman

[AMule123]

3 hours ago, dikman said:

Sam, a couple of photos of the Seiko and the 4500 with drop down guides. The Seiko is a piece of aluminium, the right hand screw is the supplied mounting screw, the second one is a longer one I had to go into the existing mounting hole and the third is the other supplied screw, tapped into the aluminium.

The 4500 is simply an L-shaped piece of aluminium ('cos the mounting holes on the machine are vertical) and a couple of screws and nuts to hold the guide. Pretty simple really.

 

Thanks mate! Super helpful! Who makes your guides?

[Uwe]

20 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

Ferg, I believe you had a CW, not a CH. The CH is a 441 clone of the Juki TSC-441. Yours is a clone of a Singer 153.

http://www.seiko-sewing.co.jp/en/products/cwseries/

Just a little fact check: The Seiko CH-8B is NOT a clone of the Juki TSC-441.

They may look similar at a superficial glance, but upon closer inspection they turn out to be totally different designs.

It seems Seiko looked at both the Adler 205 and the Juki TSC-441 to design a new machine that incorporates a few design elements from both Juki and Adler, and then added their own design elements. For example, the arm and shuttle design looks almost identical to an Adler 205, but the presser bar arrangement and top feed mechanism on the Seiko is totally different from both Adler 205 and Juki 441. The Seiko uses a rear presser bar arrangement that is offset to the side instead of in-line with front presser bar and needle bar, like both Adler and Juki use. Presser feet from all three machines are definitely not interchangeable with each other.

Seiko detail (notice the offset rear presser bar and foot):

 

 

 

[dikman]

Sam, I bought them off Aliexpress, they were cheaper than ebay. They're pretty much the same thing regardless of who sells them.

Uwe may have pointed out the only real reason to consider the 4500 instead of the Seiko - spare feet availability?

Edited July 24, 2020 by dikman

[AMule123]

Thanks all! Super appreciate the help, I’m going to go with the seiko, it comes with a spare set of feet, and I’ve found a guy in aus with a couple more. 

thanks again

sam

[dikman]

Nice. I reckon you'll be happy with it.