Building my first holster

[kiwican]

Hello all! well its finally happened. Someone has asked me to build a a pancake style holster for a Sig P226. I have watched plenty of builds and read what the experts here have to say. This will be built without a thumb break. I'm intending to use 7/8 or 8/9  cow shoulder, wet formed as tight to pistol as I can make it for good friction fit and canted to likely to a 15 degree angle. I think I'm looking for some guidance on weather I need a stiffener on the front and also ive read and seen many opinions on how close/far out the stich line needs to be from the molded part. 

Any advice welcome! 

[chuck123wapati]

Used to be a fellow here that had free patterns and instruction's for builds. JLS leather i believe. You might search the site.

[Dwight]

On a pancake with no suicide strap or thumb break . . . stiffener is a good idea.  Over time, the holster will tend to loosen up . . . the stiffener stretches that time out a bit.

When you go to do the wet mold . . . use water in the neighborhood of 135 deg F . . . and if you heat dry it (not over 140 deg F) it will also become harder.  I have a wooden box with light bulbs in the bottom . . . works as my oven . . . they get right real rigid that way.

Also . . . pull those stitches in tight to the gun.  Once molded, dyed, dried, and finished . . . wearing it a couple days will loosen up any "extra" tightness from the stitches . . . so get close.

Here are some pics of a typical one I make . . . owner wanted black wings on this one.

May God bless,

Dwight

[kiwican]

1 hour ago, chuck123wapati said:

Used to be a fellow here that had free patterns and instruction's for builds. JLS leather i believe. You might search the site.

Yup I remember him, he always had good intel on how to make these!

1 hour ago, Dwight said:

On a pancake with no suicide strap or thumb break . . . stiffener is a good idea.  Over time, the holster will tend to loosen up . . . the stiffener stretches that time out a bit.

When you go to do the wet mold . . . use water in the neighborhood of 135 deg F . . . and if you heat dry it (not over 140 deg F) it will also become harder.  I have a wooden box with light bulbs in the bottom . . . works as my oven . . . they get right real rigid that way.

Also . . . pull those stitches in tight to the gun.  Once molded, dyed, dried, and finished . . . wearing it a couple days will loosen up any "extra" tightness from the stitches . . . so get close.

Here are some pics of a typical one I make . . . owner wanted black wings on this one.

May God bless,

Dwight

Thanks for the info ! I was hoping you would show up!. 

[Dwight]

You're welcome . . . make sure to show us what you came up with.

May God bless,

Dwight

[thawk8541]

Great info as always Dwight!  Thanks for sharing your knowledge!

[Joon1911]

16 hours ago, kiwican said:

Hello all! well its finally happened. Someone has asked me to build a a pancake style holster for a Sig P226. I have watched plenty of builds and read what the experts here have to say. This will be built without a thumb break. I'm intending to use 7/8 or 8/9  cow shoulder, wet formed as tight to pistol as I can make it for good friction fit and canted to likely to a 15 degree angle. I think I'm looking for some guidance on weather I need a stiffener on the front and also ive read and seen many opinions on how close/far out the stich line needs to be from the molded part. 

Any advice welcome! 

Welcome,  my experiences have generally lined up with Jason Ingle’s presentation done on learnleather.com website.  He does things a bit different from what I’ve figured out on my own, but I learned a lot of nuance from this video.  Jason puts it pretty succinctly.  As far as the reinforcement panel, I do feel the benefits outweigh any negatives.  The added layer of glue & leather combine with the wet moulding to give more definition to the mouth opening.

 

 

[kiwican]

Good video, thankyou!

[caressofsteel]

One thing I like to do with a pancake holster is to first design the holster with the two sides at even length, then shorten the body side by 5mm and lengthen the outer side by the same amount. 

This gives the holster more rigidity than a flat pancake but still has a natural sight track and pulls in tight to the body fore and aft of the holster. 

[kiwican]

27 minutes ago, caressofsteel said:

One thing I like to do with a pancake holster is to first design the holster with the two sides at even length, then shorten the body side by 5mm and lengthen the outer side by the same amount. 

This gives the holster more rigidity than a flat pancake but still has a natural sight track and pulls in tight to the body fore and aft of the holster. 

Sorry, i think I know what you're getting at but can you expand on that more?

[caressofsteel]

8 hours ago, kiwican said:

Sorry, i think I know what you're getting at but can you expand on that more?

Consider a Glock with a slide width of 25mm and a triggerguard width of 16mm; the outside piece of leather will be around 41mm longer than the inside piece of leather in a fully offset holster. My pancake design puts the outside piece of leather 10mm longer than the inside. This does several things. Like a traditional pancake, there is a natural sight channel and the belt slots pull the pistol in tight to the body. Like a fully offset holster, one side is still longer, making the holster stay open when the pistol is withdrawn. The outer piece can be reinforced with a piece of leather to further aid the holster in retaining its shape once the pistol is withdrawn. 

The downside is that it adds a step to construction. The traditional pancake holster can be glued and sewn all at once. For an offset pancake, I glue and sew the triggerguard and trailing edge; then I insert a large dowel, wet the outside piece of leather, and glue and sew the leading edge.

I have experimented with several different lengths of offset and settled on 10mm. I create the traditional pancake pattern, then trace that to another piece of paper (I use manilla folders). I mark a line 5mm forward of the front stitch line and use that to retrace the front of the holster. This gives me the pattern for the outside piece. Then I do the same thing, except 5mm shorter. This gives me the pattern for the inner piece.

[Dwight]

As is easily seen in the pictures earlier in this thread . . . pancakes I make are generally almost flat backed.  They ride well . . . are super comfortable . . . make for both easy drawing and for easy re-holstering . . . 

I make the front first . . . by cutting a piece of leather that is generally the right size . . . but somewhat bigger.

If I'm putting on a front strengthening piece . . . it goes on first . . . sometimes it is tooled or otherwise decorated . . . that is done first . . . then glued and sewn in place.

Wet the leather . . . lay it on the gun . . . place the gun on a white plastic cutting board . . . into the vacuum bag . . . do any special molding that is necessary or desired . . . and my front is "formed" so to speak.  Hang it up to dry in my oven box at 135 to 140 degrees.

Next day . . . finish cutting and trimming the front so it gets the final shape.

Lay it down on the blank leather with the gun in it . . . trace the outside . . . adding a sweat shield (if so desired) . . . cut it out . . . glue it to the front . . . sand the edges . . . bevel the inside of the holster mouth and the toe . . . 

Get the back wet . . . insert the gun . . . using thumb pressure . . . do a bit of molding such as you see above in the pictures.  It really isn't much . . . but it helps in the retention.

Again . . . into the oven box . . . same temp . . . dry the rascal.

Give it a light coat of neatsfoot oil . . . ONLY on the outside . . . hair side of the leather. . . . allow it to dry overnight hanging in your shop (at least 16 hours).

Dip dye the whole thing . . . and let is set for about 15 minutes . . . carefully touch up any boogered up spots on the front panel if you carved / stamped / traced anything on there.

Back in the oven until it is DRY.  Put the gun or gun mold in it . . . and buff it like you are trying to shine up an old bowling ball.

Sew it . . . and pull your stitches up TIGHT to the molded edges.

From there it is finish the beveling . . . dress the edges . . . add final finish coat(s) . . . you are done.

That is my way of making pancake holsters  . . . 

May God bless,

Dwight

[chuck123wapati]

1 hour ago, Dwight said:

As is easily seen in the pictures earlier in this thread . . . pancakes I make are generally almost flat backed.  They ride well . . . are super comfortable . . . make for both easy drawing and for easy re-holstering . . . 

I make the front first . . . by cutting a piece of leather that is generally the right size . . . but somewhat bigger.

If I'm putting on a front strengthening piece . . . it goes on first . . . sometimes it is tooled or otherwise decorated . . . that is done first . . . then glued and sewn in place.

Wet the leather . . . lay it on the gun . . . place the gun on a white plastic cutting board . . . into the vacuum bag . . . do any special molding that is necessary or desired . . . and my front is "formed" so to speak.  Hang it up to dry in my oven box at 135 to 140 degrees.

Next day . . . finish cutting and trimming the front so it gets the final shape.

Lay it down on the blank leather with the gun in it . . . trace the outside . . . adding a sweat shield (if so desired) . . . cut it out . . . glue it to the front . . . sand the edges . . . bevel the inside of the holster mouth and the toe . . . 

Get the back wet . . . insert the gun . . . using thumb pressure . . . do a bit of molding such as you see above in the pictures.  It really isn't much . . . but it helps in the retention.

Again . . . into the oven box . . . same temp . . . dry the rascal.

Give it a light coat of neatsfoot oil . . . ONLY on the outside . . . hair side of the leather. . . . allow it to dry overnight hanging in your shop (at least 16 hours).

Dip dye the whole thing . . . and let is set for about 15 minutes . . . carefully touch up any boogered up spots on the front panel if you carved / stamped / traced anything on there.

Back in the oven until it is DRY.  Put the gun or gun mold in it . . . and buff it like you are trying to shine up an old bowling ball.

Sew it . . . and pull your stitches up TIGHT to the molded edges.

From there it is finish the beveling . . . dress the edges . . . add final finish coat(s) . . . you are done.

That is my way of making pancake holsters  . . . 

May God bless,

Dwight

I've gotta make me one of them vacuum machines, both for leather and my knife handle blanks. Been eyeing the wifes food vac sealer machine but she eyes me back and not in a nice way. You have the process down pat Dwight Thanks for sharing.

[Dwight]

Forget the vacuum sealer . . . they don't pull the vacuum this little guy will.

https://www.harborfreight.com/25-cfm-vacuum-pump-61245.html

May God bless,

Dwight

[chuck123wapati]

1 hour ago, Dwight said:

Forget the vacuum sealer . . . they don't pull the vacuum this little guy will.

https://www.harborfreight.com/25-cfm-vacuum-pump-61245.html

May God bless,

Dwight

Thank you again!

 

[kiwican]

13 hours ago, caressofsteel said:

Consider a Glock with a slide width of 25mm and a triggerguard width of 16mm; the outside piece of leather will be around 41mm longer than the inside piece of leather in a fully offset holster. My pancake design puts the outside piece of leather 10mm longer than the inside. This does several things. Like a traditional pancake, there is a natural sight channel and the belt slots pull the pistol in tight to the body. Like a fully offset holster, one side is still longer, making the holster stay open when the pistol is withdrawn. The outer piece can be reinforced with a piece of leather to further aid the holster in retaining its shape once the pistol is withdrawn. 

The downside is that it adds a step to construction. The traditional pancake holster can be glued and sewn all at once. For an offset pancake, I glue and sew the triggerguard and trailing edge; then I insert a large dowel, wet the outside piece of leather, and glue and sew the leading edge.

I have experimented with several different lengths of offset and settled on 10mm. I create the traditional pancake pattern, then trace that to another piece of paper (I use manilla folders). I mark a line 5mm forward of the front stitch line and use that to retrace the front of the holster. This gives me the pattern for the outside piece. Then I do the same thing, except 5mm shorter. This gives me the pattern for the inner piece.

Nice! i get it now, thanks for the input!

[chiefjason]

I don't add stiffeners to the front.  Sometimes I'll add some exotic piece or leather panel that does the same thing.  But the vast majority of my pancakes are made without one.  

Get the stitch line in as close as possible.  Over time, the stitch line is the most important part for retention.  Molding and boning will soften and break in.  Leather will stretch.  A wide stitch line will loosen.  So the closer that stitch line is to the mold, the less it's able to loosen up.  So you get better retention over time.  

[kiwican]

So here it is, my first attempt. Two pieces of 7-8 ounce shoulder. Pre dyed in Black. I used .030 waxed thread in Scarlett. The retention is good without wearing it and really good when wearing it. Next one ill run the stitches closer in. There is a just the right amount of space between the holster and the grip for a really secure grab, even with my brand of tactical gloves on. I did some wet forming on both sides just for a bit of definition. Its super comfortable to wear too! more so than the kydex ones ive worn. Belt slots are two inch. Feed back appreciated !, 

Ive done some more forming since these were taken

[Dwight]

Good looking..........did you put a sweat shield behind it??

May God bless,

Dwight

[kiwican]

4 minutes ago, Dwight said:

Good looking..........did you put a sweat shield behind it??

May God bless,

Dwight

Thanks Dwight, no sweat shield on this one, the request was for without. This is Canada and we dont have the right to carry. Pistols may only be used on a range, you cannot even shoot them on your property and cannot use them to hunt with. This will not get used alot at all 

[kiwican]

All done and finished as far as I can tell!. I made that belt about 6 years ago, 

[Dwight]

2 hours ago, kiwican said:

Thanks Dwight, no sweat shield on this one, the request was for without. This is Canada and we dont have the right to carry. Pistols may only be used on a range, you cannot even shoot them on your property and cannot use them to hunt with. This will not get used alot at all 

Ouch . . . but glad you can at least have them . . . what the heck happens when you shoot the bad guy on your property . . . doing bad things????

May God bless,

Dwight

[kiwican]

1 hour ago, Dwight said:

Ouch . . . but glad you can at least have them . . . what the heck happens when you shoot the bad guy on your property . . . doing bad things????

May God bless,

Dwight

Ahh yes well, in Canada you have the right to defend yourself...but you may not plan for it! if you carry a knife and the police ask what its for and you say its for self defence then you can be arrested and charged with one of a number of weapons' offences, same with any device really. When the Gov asks you why you want a Firearms licence and you say for self defence you will not get said licence. If you shoot someone on your property you will be spending time in one of her majesty's hotels. The concept of castle doctrine was starting to creep in via caselaw but then the Liberals' got in and we are back to the bad guys having more rights than the citizenry they attack    

[Dwight]

1 hour ago, kiwican said:

Ahh yes well, in Canada you have the right to defend yourself...but you may not plan for it! if you carry a knife and the police ask what its for and you say its for self defence then you can be arrested and charged with one of a number of weapons' offences, same with any device really. When the Gov asks you why you want a Firearms licence and you say for self defence you will not get said licence. If you shoot someone on your property you will be spending time in one of her majesty's hotels. The concept of castle doctrine was starting to creep in via caselaw but then the Liberals' got in and we are back to the bad guys having more rights than the citizenry they attack    

You don't need the castle doctrine . . . you just need a couple acres and a back hoe.

May God bless,

Dwight

[chrisash]

That's the same in the UK, Rifle (no auto's) or Shotgun OK (both about 3-6 month Police check before you get licence and guns always locked in safe when not in use). No pistols, Even the majority of the police do not carry guns, though some do in sensitive area's like Airports and  a few patrol cars have guns locked in a safe in the boot of the car for firearm response incidents

Allowed to carry 2.5 inch blade with reason ( tools of trade etc) like Canada but no flick knives etc