Making a Scottish Hunting Sporran?

[GrafVil]

Hello to all.

I am attempting to make a Scottish leather Hunting Sporran similar to the one in the picture.  I could use some help or advice on how to make the circular device shown in the center.  Does anyone have experience making the outer edge of the circle with the points and holes?  Is there a special tool  or pattern available to lay this out?  

I have made many other types of sporrans but this detail is one I can't find a video on.

 

Any help would be appreciated.

 

Tom H.

[mike02130]

I don't quite understand your specific question.  There's a lot going on there.  A circle is 360 degrees.  Figure the radius then divide by what ever number of holes and lay it out with dividers.  The star points would be the same method for laying out the legs on a three legged stool.

[Matt S]

There are brogueing punches for doing similar work, which have two or more punches next to each other. This helps to lay out the spacing on brogued shoe uppers. However you'd have to adjust the circumference of the disc to some multiple of the spacing on your brogueing punch for that to work properly.

If I were making a one-off for my own satisfaction I would take inspiration from the decoration and lay the whole thing out with a compass/dividers. That's probably how the original piece(s) what inspired your example was done. Maybe use a protractor and calculator if that's a method you're more comfortable with. I'd expect layout to take over half an hour per piece, probably closer to an hour. Cutting and punching would take maybe 15 minutes using a drive punch and a knife.

If I were doing it on the clock, and especially if I were making more than one, I'd draw the punching and cutting pattern on CAD. Print it out, a squirt of temporary spray mount on the back, stick it on the leather, punch and cut, them peel off and decorate. Punching and cutting wouldn't be any faster than with hand layout.

Larger quantities would be an obvious candidate for a custom die cutter. I would send RFQs to several die makers but with all those wiggly edges and punch tubes I'd be expecting to the cheapest quote to be several hundred £. Zero layout time, and a few seconds to cut and punch. Of course in these quantities a metal embossing plate for the decoration (including a line for sewing) would be a no-brainer.

[GrafVil]

Hello Mike02130 and Matt S.

Thank you for your suggestions.  I am making a one-of for myself, and also just to try a new style of sporran.  

I made a trial piece on scrap leather laying out the points and holes as show below.  I calculated 40 holes around the perimeter and that made the points and punched holes 9 degrees apart.  I have a 9 inch diameter paper protractor and I laid out 1/4 of the circle.  The radius from the center to the outer points was 2 1/2 inches and the depth of the notches was 3/16 inch.

I think I can make this work.  I will need to be a bit more precise on the layout and cutting though.

I have already tooled the center with no holes or notches so I will not use this method yet.  I'll post the final product when finished.

Appreciate you help.  

Tom H

[GrafVil]

Here is the final product.

This is a 5" diameter circle that will be glued to the front of a Scottish Sporran (A Sporran is the pouch worn by men wearing Kilts.  It holds essential items since most kilts do not have pockets.)

I consider this a prototype and will do it again, correcting the mistakes i have made this first time.  The points are too deep, and the holes were punched from the back instead of from the front so some of the holes are off center.

The metal emblem on the front is a thistle, an emblem of Scotland.

Tom H

[Matt S]

53 minutes ago, mike02130 said:

Ah, so it's a purse for men in skirts?  Now I get it.

A skirt has a hem. Kilts do not. Men have been wearing kilts for working and fighting far longer than your country has existed.

[battlemunky]

I'm gonna go and get some ice for that burn. 

[chuck123wapati]

1 hour ago, Matt S said:

A skirt has a hem. Kilts do not. Men have been wearing kilts for working and fighting far longer than your country has existed.

 Good one. Yup they did and they came over here too. My grand mother was a Montgomery. So our country may be new but our people are the same old people with different clothes.

[Matt S]

15 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

 Good one. Yup they did and they came over here too. My grand mother was a Montgomery. So our country may be new but our people are the same old people with different clothes.

Aye, there's a lot of Scots went west in the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries. Many of the earliest white settlers in the Appalachians were Scots. The Hudson's Bay Company actively recruited Shetlanders and Hebrideans to explore the interior of what we now call Canada. They used to joke that they were going for the improved weather. Half-joke, anyway. Anyone who can scrape a living from the sea around one of those little dots of wind-ravaged Atlantic granite has to be some kinda hardcase.

 

19 hours ago, GrafVil said:

Here is the final product. I consider this a prototype and will do it again, correcting the mistakes i have made this first time.  The points are too deep, and the holes were punched from the back instead of from the front so some of the holes are off center.

Tom that looks great! I like that you're not trying to make an exact copy of the one you've seen, putting your own twist on it.

[chuck123wapati]

1 hour ago, Matt S said:

Aye, there's a lot of Scots went west in the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries. Many of the earliest white settlers in the Appalachians were Scots. The Hudson's Bay Company actively recruited Shetlanders and Hebrideans to explore the interior of what we now call Canada. They used to joke that they were going for the improved weather. Half-joke, anyway. Anyone who can scrape a living from the sea around one of those little dots of wind-ravaged Atlantic granite has to be some kinda hardcase.

 

Tom that looks great! I like that you're not trying to make an exact copy of the one you've seen, putting your own twist on it.

LOL Yea my Clan side went to Ireland, County Donegal, first then my great granddaddy came to the US in the 1840s. Had to be hard to move to Wyoming in the 1840s from a famine to the wild west and the same weather lol. 

[jcuk]

19 hours ago, Matt S said:

A skirt has a hem. Kilts do not. Men have been wearing kilts for working and fighting far longer than your country has existed.

Love the banter between the English and the sweaties so miss the home internationals and yes have many Scottish friends its all in good fun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yw0bLHTOb0

https://genius.com/Andy-stewart-donald-wheres-your-troosers-lyrics

We also have older houses.

 

JCUK

Edited August 19, 2020 by jcuk

[fredk]

2 hours ago, Matt S said:

Aye, there's a lot of Scots went west in the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries. 

Aye, and a little known fact is that tens of thousands, from the Highland Clearance mainly, went as slaves. My town was a major port then and the slave ships called in for provisions before heading to the Atlantic.

But this be a deviation.

I'm just keeping up with following this thread and the construction of this sporran

edit to add, btw do you know there are various superstitions related to bags, purses and sporrans? mmmm, thought not. With sporrans you are supposed to give it to the new owner and indeed keep it yourself with a small leather drawstring bag containing a handful of dried oats. This is to ensure you or the other person will never go hungry. Superstition is that if you don't have or give that wee bag you'll starve to death within 6 months

 

Edited August 19, 2020 by fredk

[mike02130]

21 hours ago, Matt S said:

A skirt has a hem. Kilts do not. Men have been wearing kilts for working and fighting far longer than your country has existed.

The Scots didn’t want to pay extra for a hem. 

[Retswerb]

Wait, kilts are unhemmed? That seems impractical.

[fredk]

afair a kilt doesn't need a hem cos its the width of the loom so both edges have a selvage - a self-edge

[chuck123wapati]

6 minutes ago, fredk said:

afair a kilt doesn't need a hem cos its the width of the loom so both edges have a selvage - a self-edge

i thought it was because the scots asked for AHEM but the seamstress thought they were just clearing their throat. lol You have some cool knowledge friend. 

[GrafVil]

4 hours ago, fredk said:

Aye, and a little known fact is that tens of thousands, from the Highland Clearance mainly, went as slaves. My town was a major port then and the slave ships called in for provisions before heading to the Atlantic.

But this be a deviation.

I'm just keeping up with following this thread and the construction of this sporran

edit to add, btw do you know there are various superstitions related to bags, purses and sporrans? mmmm, thought not. With sporrans you are supposed to give it to the new owner and indeed keep it yourself with a small leather drawstring bag containing a handful of dried oats. This is to ensure you or the other person will never go hungry. Superstition is that if you don't have or give that wee bag you'll starve to death within 6 months

 

I did not know about including a small portion of oats with a new sporran.  I will have to start doing that!  On the other hand, when I have made billfolds for people, I enclose a $1.00 bill with the wish the billfold will never be empty.

[fredk]

16 hours ago, GrafVil said:

. . . On the other hand, when I have made billfolds for people, I enclose a $1.00 bill with the wish the billfold will never be empty.

   I congratulate you. You are one of the very few people who know of these things

Its bad luck to be superstitious, but why take a chance?

[Rahere]

It's becoming commonplace to use a laser cutter on leather, working off a CAD design. They're often accessible in Hackerspace club workshops.

[RCAnderson]

On 8/17/2020 at 9:56 AM, GrafVil said:

Hello to all.

I am attempting to make a Scottish leather Hunting Sporran similar to the one in the picture.  I could use some help or advice on how to make the circular device shown in the center.  Does anyone have experience making the outer edge of the circle with the points and holes?  Is there a special tool  or pattern available to lay this out?  

I have made many other types of sporrans but this detail is one I can't find a video on.

 

Any help would be appreciated.

 

Tom H.

To achieve that circular edging, I have used pinking shears For the outside edge and a simple punch for the holes.

As a Scot Who wears a kilt daily, I would be remis if I didn’t remind you that a “hunting” sporran would never have a metal cantle or tassels which could make noise when hunting. Instead of the 3 tassels, hunting sporrans have 5 “leaves” that are tacked down so that they do not flap.

RC

Honolulu, Hawaii.

[Rahere]

Rereading this made me review my definition of hardarse. I mean, I'm a descendant of St Magnus of Orkney, our family became a legend of the Clearances because when the Redcoats tried to drive the Gunns into the sea, we hauled as many as possible into the boats and sailed faster and further than they could march. A day south took us to Newcastle, where we turned collier to London, based out of Great Yarmouth, the halfway point. (you're home twice as often). We have a Navy nickname, and my first training was with the Royal Marines, aged 10.

During my time in officer training, I proved unbreakable in interrogation, had no trouble sleeping in the snow, and had a mindset which was very carefully checked through by one of the SAS. Eventually they offered me a job I ghosted on, because I'd discovered what had happened by getting the other side to talk. Silence is golden in some cases. I later showed them how to do it, becoming a legend among the legends - memories of my two year old daughter bouncing on the knee of the guy who invented the flashbang! Precious.

Does that make me hardarse? Well, I'm impatient with teenage woofters, candyarses. I passed out top of my Platoon Commanders class at the School of Infantry, having "wiped out" a platoon of gurkhas by precision timing in exercise. I've raised MI5 flags four times, satisfying them every time, the last time so solidly I suspect they know I know. I'm the only spouse ever to meet the Rosenberg interdiction standard. Perhaps I am. But then again, I wouldn't know, would I?

Edited December 26, 2020 by Rahere