Need advice (Glue fume extractor)

[Danne]

1 minute ago, Spyros said:

I bought mine from greenhouse supplies, it came as a set with the duct and fan speed controller.  It's powerful alright, if I forget to crack the window before I turn it on it creates such a vacuum that I literally can't open the door.  

Basically it replaces all the air in the workshop in about a minute, like I said don't expect the room to stay warm.

I have a look at it too. Not because it's 12v, installing a single phase 230v fan is easy. But I have a feeling it will be smaller things, and if they do the job as good, that's a good thing.

[Danne]

3 minutes ago, Matt S said:

I'm looking at something similar for my small (150SQFT/15SQM) workshop. I have to either heat or cool it >50% of the year so just running the extractor fan is dumping expensive energy out the wall. I don't have many health issues from the fumes but don't want to develop them in the future either. Plus it's more pleasant for others to come into the workshop if they're not going to choke after 5 minutes of conversation.

What I'm looking at is the small air filtration systems aimed mainly at woodworkers. They can have active carbon filters fitted in addition to the dust filters, which supposedly are good at removing organic solvents and lower-end systems don't seem very expensive. @Danne you would have to weigh up the aesthetic and noise concerns yourself but if you could mount it near where you'll be using the glues I reckon that this will go a long way to keeping your flat less noxious.

This is the sort of thing I had in mind:
https://www.axminstertools.com/axminster-craft-ac15afs-air-filter-106179

I sent a message to the European agent of BVX-101 and asked about the filter for solvents. You can also see some clips on youtube where it's used with the filter for soldering fumes, and it seems like a good solution, because you don't need a hose out your window so you wont be dumping out energy. 

Here is a photo of the twin unit mounted under a desk, the single unit is smaller though. And I would modify it slightly so I can drill a hole in my desk (because I want my desk against the wall. Those aren't cheap around 600€ + vat + the cost of the desk mount, which you of course can make yourself.

I will update you when I get an answer, if I forget you have to remind me.

[Spyros]

21 minutes ago, Matt S said:

I'm looking at something similar for my small (150SQFT/15SQM) workshop. I have to either heat or cool it >50% of the year so just running the extractor fan is dumping expensive energy out the wall. I don't have many health issues from the fumes but don't want to develop them in the future either. Plus it's more pleasant for others to come into the workshop if they're not going to choke after 5 minutes of conversation.

What I'm looking at is the small air filtration systems aimed mainly at woodworkers. They can have active carbon filters fitted in addition to the dust filters, which supposedly are good at removing organic solvents and lower-end systems don't seem very expensive. @Danne you would have to weigh up the aesthetic and noise concerns yourself but if you could mount it near where you'll be using the glues I reckon that this will go a long way to keeping your flat less noxious.

This is the sort of thing I had in mind:
https://www.axminstertools.com/axminster-craft-ac15afs-air-filter-106179

Those air scrubbers work ok in smaller spaces, I think the problem you might face is that overtime the actual machine might start to stink.  I mean it collects all the particles, they're not going anywhere.

Maybe a better solution for you (and potentially for Danne) if you can afford some bench space, is to create a mini glueing station, and use a very targeted extraction in that space only.   You have your bench, then put something like a rangehood relatively low over it (just a hood, not the whole machine) attached to a duct, which will go to a greenhouse extractor mounted on some plywood in the wall or a window.   With a switch and fan speed controller close by.   That way when you're gluing under the hood you can run the fan at a very low speed and short bursts and hopefully capture most or all the fumes and send them outside while retaining your room temperature more or less.

Edited August 19, 2020 by Spyros

[Danne]

4 minutes ago, Spyros said:

Those air scrubbers work ok in smaller spaces, I think the problem you might face is that overtime the actual machine might start to stink.  I mean it collects all the particles, they're not going anywhere.

Maybe a better solution for you (and potentially for Danne) if you can afford some bench space, is to create a mini gluing station, and use a very targeted extraction in that space only.   You have your bench, then put something like a rangehood over it (just the hood, not the whole machine) attached to a duct, which will go to a greenhouse extractor mounted on some plywood in the wall or a window.   With a switch and fan speed controller close by.   That way when you're gluing you can run the fan at a very low speed and short bursts and hopefully capture most or all the fumes and send them outside while retaining your room temperature more or less.

What are your thoughts on the BVX-101 I showed? I really like it because my desk space is precious. And also I really like a clean installation where nothing is visible except the extraction hose.

Edited August 19, 2020 by Danne

[Spyros]

1 minute ago, Danne said:

What are your thoughts on the BVX-101 I showed? I really like it because my desk space is precious. And also I really like a clean installation where nothing is visible except the extraction hose.

I really don't know, it's one of those things you only know after you've used them a while. It might actually work great, i don't know. My concern with filters in general is that whatever it is you're trying to filter whether it's fumes, odours or dust, it actually stays in the room.  With dust, those machines (unless we're talking about HEPA certified over $1k machines) are notorious for mincing dust into smaller particles and releasing them back into the air.  With fumes, i don't know.  With odours, I'm concerned the actual machine/filter might start to stink overtime unless you change filters all the time.  To me the only perfect solution is to take the air and whatever is in it and send it out, but it comes with the energy downside.

[Danne]

3 minutes ago, Spyros said:

I really don't know, it's one of those things you only know after you've used them a while. It might actually work great, i don't know. My concern with filters in general is that whatever it is you're trying to filter whether it's fumes, odours or dust, it actually stays in the room.  With dust, those machines (unless we're talking about HEPA certified over $1k machines) are notorious for mincing dust into smaller particles and releasing them back into the air.  With fumes, i don't know.  With odours, I'm concerned the actual machine/filter might start to stink overtime unless you change filters all the time.  To me the only perfect solution is to take the air and whatever is in it and send it out, but it comes with the energy downside.

Yes, that's the thing that worry me a little bit too, that I will have to change expensive filters very often.

I don't know if it's Hepa certified but it says "HEPA Efficiency: 99.97% at 0.3 micron" And it says it have Hepa filters.

[Matt S]

37 minutes ago, Danne said:

I sent a message to the European agent of BVX-101 and asked about the filter for solvents. You can also see some clips on youtube where it's used with the filter for soldering fumes, and it seems like a good solution, because you don't need a hose out your window so you wont be dumping out energy. 

Here is a photo of the twin unit mounted under a desk, the single unit is smaller though. And I would modify it slightly so I can drill a hole in my desk (because I want my desk against the wall. Those aren't cheap around 600€ + vat + the cost of the desk mount, which you of course can make yourself.

I will update you when I get an answer, if I forget you have to remind me.

That looks really neat and would work well for small items. Sadly for me I often need to put bigger bits of leather on my bench than there is bench space, so the goosenecks wouldn't work in my application.

26 minutes ago, Spyros said:

Those air scrubbers work ok in smaller spaces, I think the problem you might face is that overtime the actual machine might start to stink.  I mean it collects all the particles, they're not going anywhere.

Maybe a better solution for you (and potentially for Danne) if you can afford some bench space, is to create a mini gluing station, and use a very targeted extraction in that space only.   You have your bench, then put something like a rangehood over it (just the hood, not the whole machine) attached to a duct, which will go to a greenhouse extractor mounted on some plywood in the wall or a window.   With a switch and fan speed controller close by.   That way when you're gluing you can run the fan at a very low speed and short bursts and hopefully capture most or all the fumes and send them outside while retaining your room temperature more or less.

A dedicated glue bench (with glass top for easy cleaning and a vented hood) would be great, but not really practical in my limited space, especially with the long pieces of leather I frequently have to glue. I take your point about capturing smells. Not a huge amount of data on the website, I'll shoot them an email.

[Spyros]

18 minutes ago, Danne said:

Yes, that's the thing that worry me a little bit too, that I will have to change expensive filters very often.

I don't know if it's Hepa certified but it says "HEPA Efficiency: 99.97% at 0.3 micron" And it says it have Hepa filters.

yes sorry I was thinking about shop vacs when I said $1k.  This sounds like a good filter, but check the cost of replacing it.

[Danne]

5 minutes ago, Spyros said:

yes sorry I was thinking about shop vacs when I said $1k.  This sounds like a good filter, but check the cost of replacing it.

Just a quick google search and the first one I found was 92€ and pre-filter 5-pack 30€ 

But I wonder how often that hepa filter would need to be replaced. I mean even if I did this professionally full time. And let's say I would make two watch straps/day, we are talking about maybe 10 minutes a day it will be used. Because I think I rarely will use solvent based glue for other than watch straps. I have used reinforcement materials on wallets to give them structure (Vildona) and that material bonds good with Aquilim 315, good enough to leave an edge without stitching? No, but it wouldn't with solvent based glue on that material either, because it's not the glue that separates from the leather, you tear the material in two parts. 

[Retswerb]

1 hour ago, Spyros said:

With odours, I'm concerned the actual machine/filter might start to stink overtime unless you change filters all the time. 

Call me crazy, but what about mounting the filter box outside with the intake and exhaust hoses running to the workspace? Little heat loss and whatever is in the filter stays outside if you cap the lines. Probably impractical for OP, just musing.

Edit: find a way to vent the lines outside when you’re not running it.

Edited August 19, 2020 by Retswerb