An actual Leather Conditioner recipe

[TomE]

7 hours ago, ScottWolf said:

Beeswax is a good ingredient to use with NFO , as it retards the NFO from oxidizing ( some people erroneously use the word rancid to describe oxidization). 

Interested in learning about the components of beeswax and which one(s) are antioxidants.  The biochemist in me thinks rancid describes the result of animal fat and protein oxidation (?).

[ScottWolf]

4 hours ago, TomE said:

Interested in learning about the components of beeswax and which one(s) are antioxidants.  The biochemist in me thinks rancid describes the result of animal fat and protein oxidation (?).

Tom, here is a good paper that discusses beeswax, section 7 specifically. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7827872/

[chuck123wapati]

2 hours ago, ScottWolf said:

Tom, here is a good paper that discusses beeswax, section 7 specifically. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7827872/

good article if your going to eat the stuff. I have only found one study on leather productshttps://www.researchgate.net/publication/43285442_Leather_coated_with_mixtures_of_humectant_and_antioxidants_to_improve_ultraviolet_and_heat_resistance

[chuck123wapati]

2 minutes ago, chuck123wapati said:

good article if your going to eat the stuff. I have only found one study on leather productshttps://www.researchgate.net/publication/43285442_Leather_coated_with_mixtures_of_humectant_and_antioxidants_to_improve_ultraviolet_and_heat_resistance

wow such an asociation exists  https://www.researchgate.net/journal/Journal-American-Leather-Chemists-Association-0002-9726

[ScottWolf]

1 hour ago, chuck123wapati said:

good article if your going to eat the stuff. I have only found one study on leather productshttps://www.researchgate.net/publication/43285442_Leather_coated_with_mixtures_of_humectant_and_antioxidants_to_improve_ultraviolet_and_heat_resistance

It's not about the eating of it as much as it is about how it reacts with other ingredients. There is a reason why there is a preponderance of leather care and conditioner products that use beeswax and its by products in its formulation among the other ingredients that are mentioned in previous posts in this thread.

[TomE]

4 hours ago, ScottWolf said:

Tom, here is a good paper that discusses beeswax, section 7 specifically. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7827872/

Thank you, Scott.  I'll check it out.

 

2 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

good article if your going to eat the stuff. I have only found one study on leather productshttps://www.researchgate.net/publication/43285442_Leather_coated_with_mixtures_of_humectant_and_antioxidants_to_improve_ultraviolet_and_heat_resistance

Thanks, Chuck.  Good stuff!

 

2 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

wow such an asociation exists  https://www.researchgate.net/journal/Journal-American-Leather-Chemists-Association-0002-9726

Did not find this reference.  Is the link complete?

 

[chuck123wapati]

30 minutes ago, TomE said:

Thank you, Scott.  I'll check it out.

 

Thanks, Chuck.  Good stuff!

 

Did not find this reference.  Is the link complete?

 

the link works for me? it is to the site only not a document.

[TomE]

9 minutes ago, chuck123wapati said:

the link works for me? it is to the site only not a document.

Got it.

[chuck123wapati]

1 minute ago, TomE said:

Got it.

all kinds of cool sciency stuff about leather.

[chuck123wapati]

1 hour ago, ScottWolf said:

It's not about the eating of it as much as it is about how it reacts with other ingredients. There is a reason why there is a preponderance of leather care and conditioner products that use beeswax and its by products in its formulation among the other ingredients that are mentioned in previous posts in this thread.

your right beeswax has been used for thousands of years on leather and many other products. Mostly to seal and or waterproof the product its applied to. I've never read or heard of its primary use being to prevent NFO from going rancid, if it does that's great too!! .  Beeswax rocks don't get me wrong i use it for about a half dozen different potions mostly very old concoctions for wood leather textiles and such. 

[Ajdsimon]

I made a batch of the initial recipe, and so far so good! I reconditioned the bag I made for my mother, and it really gave it more “life”. Thanks man!

[Adouthit]

On 2/20/2021 at 3:25 PM, ScottWolf said:

UPDATE: here are a few other variations on the original recipe that I have tried and found to be good to go.

*alternative ingredients*

• 2 tbs. of coconut oil
• 2 or 3 tbs. of beeswax (depending on how firm you like it)
• ¼ cup of sweet almond oil
• ¼ cup of castor oil

 

Another variation of ingredients that works as well, but will cost more has the following ingredients:

 

25g | 0.88oz  Beeswax

25g | 0.88oz  Shea butter

17g | .6oz      Jojoba ( beads or oil)

17g | .6oz      Castor oil

17g | .6oz      Coconut oil

2 teaspoons   Anhydrous Lanolin

 

**If you want to make any of these recipes tacky, add tree/pine resin. This can be bought on Amazon in rock form. You will need to crush it with a hammer if the rocks are large. Add it to the mix and allow to melt while stirring it in with the other ingredients. You may want to melt it first in a separate pot until it is liquid and then add it to to your other ingredients. Start with a small amount (19g / .7 oz) in a test batch to determine how tacky you want it before doing a larger batch or using more resin.

Any thoughts on what to use on rawhide. I've briefly looked for an MSDS for rawhide cream and wasn't successful. I've read Tallow is good for rawhide. So possibly tallow and beeswax?

I've still been fiddling with leather lotion and conditioner recipes involving mineral oil and amber petroleum jelly. 

It's generally 1/2 cup mineral oil or amber petroleum with about 2 Tablespoons of lanolin, tallow, NF, castor oil and raw linseed oil. The beeswax and carnauba wax are a dependent on what you like. I usually use about two teaspoons beeswax and a teaspoon or two of the carnauba. Too much and it sits on top and takes more work to get it into the leather.  With the lotion, I add an emulsifier and a little water. Lastly Vitamin E for a preservative.

It's okay but using the mineral oil or amber petroleum can be more pricey than other options. I don't mind using them as a carrier for the other items but by themselves they're not very good. So the stories I've read on the net of whipping out the Vaseline to use on your saddle in a pinch don't hold much merit with me. 

 

[ScottWolf]

On 3/1/2023 at 6:18 AM, Adouthit said:

Any thoughts on what to use on rawhide. I've briefly looked for an MSDS for rawhide cream and wasn't successful. I've read Tallow is good for rawhide. So possibly tallow and beeswax?

Tallow does wonders for bringing things back. Are you talking about something like dog bone rawhide hard and wanting to make it soft/pliable? Take a look at Colorado Leather balm if you don't want to make it yourself.

 

[Adouthit]

I bought a hunk from Tandy for a saddle skirt repair. I find it tricky to work with and am not having any fun with it. Thanks for the input! I'll take a look at your recommendation. 

[Burkhardt]

What kind of repair requires rawhide?

[Adouthit]

Oh, this tex tan balanced ride has rawhide where the latigos go. It's different and I'm not fond of it but I guess it's best to fix it with what the manufacturer used. 

It's broken both sides on the keeper so I reinforced it with some latigo leather on the inside and the rawhide on the outside. I should have had this fixed awhile ago but I'm procrastinating.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/NcziGNaUBZmmixoX8

[Burkhardt]

9 hours ago, Adouthit said:

Oh, this tex tan balanced ride has rawhide where the latigos go. It's different and I'm not fond of it but I guess it's best to fix it with what the manufacturer used. 

It's broken both sides on the keeper so I reinforced it with some latigo leather on the inside and the rawhide on the outside. I should have had this fixed awhile ago but I'm procrastinating.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/NcziGNaUBZmmixoX8

That looks like a nightmare.

[Burkhardt]

On 3/2/2023 at 12:55 PM, Adouthit said:

Oh, this tex tan balanced ride has rawhide where the latigos go. It's different and I'm not fond of it but I guess it's best to fix it with what the manufacturer used. 

It's broken both sides on the keeper so I reinforced it with some latigo leather on the inside and the rawhide on the outside. I should have had this fixed awhile ago but I'm procrastinating.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/NcziGNaUBZmmixoX8

 

[Adouthit]

On 3/2/2023 at 8:08 PM, Burkhardt said:

That looks like a nightmare.

It was... I'm still new to repair work and I did a terrible job. Live and learn I guess.

[sheree]

What happens if you only use beeswax and lanolin, ratio 1:3, for leather balm? Would it work well? If not, why? Thanks.

[SUP]

A bit late in this thread, but don't coconut oil, almond oil  etc. get oxidized over time? I have heard they do. 

[dikman]

On 4/5/2023 at 12:21 PM, sheree said:

What happens if you only use beeswax and lanolin, ratio 1:3, for leather balm? Would it work well? If not, why? Thanks.

No reason it shouldn't work, you'll probably end up with something smelling like woolly bees.

[ScottWolf]

On 4/4/2023 at 7:51 PM, sheree said:

What happens if you only use beeswax and lanolin, ratio 1:3, for leather balm? Would it work well? If not, why? Thanks.

You can do that and it's a good way to avoid using too much lanolin in one sitting and helps in its application as pure lanolin is a gooey blob and doesnt spread as well as when its in a beeswax medium. It will also have a definite sheep smell/odor to it. The beeswax will help eliminate/reduce most of that smell.

5 hours ago, SUP said:

A bit late in this thread, but don't coconut oil, almond oil  etc. get oxidized over time? I have heard they do. 

Everything eventually oxidizes. However, mixing substances together, such as beeswax and or adding vitamin E into the mix, specifically reduces/retards oxidation to the point that there isn't a need to worry about it.

[dikman]

I just re-read the thread and there's some good info in it (thanks for starting it ScottWolf ). I first started down the "natural ingredients" path when I started shooting black powder muzzleloaders. It is widely accepted that it's a good idea not to use petroleum-based products due to the residue problems with BP. Having said that many swear by Ballistol, which is a German product used widely by their army during WWII. What many don't realise is it's virtually all medicinal-grade mineral oil, with something added (anethole these days) to make it smell nice!

There are as many recipes for patch lubes as there are for leather conditioners! I have spent many hours searching for the MSDS for both, and it isn't always easy to find out what is in them. Regarding leather conditioners probably the most common/widely used ingredient is medicinal/food grade mineral oil as this blends nicely with waxes to make them "spreadable". This is also apparently considered by some manufacturers to be natural. Paraffin wax is also widely used presumably because it is readily available commercially and no doubt is cheaper than using beeswax. As with the mineral oil the wax is basically a highly refined petroleum product. 

Some manufacturers don't list what is in their products in the MSDS because if the products are natural and aren't considered dangerous within the various regulatory guidelines then they're not required to list them. Most of them usually have beeswax, because it's a great marketing tool to say it contains beeswax, but you don't know what is used to make the wax "spreadable". I once made a concoction using beeswax and pure gum turpentine as the solvent (natural, you see) but over time the container developed a black tar-like deposit in it so I haven't used it since. I also made my own tallow from sheep fat (suet) using a slow cooker. That was many years ago and I've still got some, it's stored in a shed that gets bloody hot in summer and very cold in winter and it's still fine. I've found extra virgin olive oil works well as a softening agent when mixed with beeswax and so far haven't found any downside to it. Blending waxes is a fascinating exercise.

[chuck123wapati]

Here's the deal. man has been using leather since the stone age. They have been conditioning leather for the same amount of time using all "natural " products. to think that it hasn't been done or tried is just silly for lack of a better term that wont offend folks. 

 But here is something to think about, if you use your new beeswax and olive oil conditioner that hasn't ever been tried  before in the history of man. on leather  you intend to use out doors you better stock up on bug spray!!!!!

Bugs smell stuff, they like food, and you will smell like food to them ! Bees especially are attracted to beeswax for some odd reason, who knew right?

Good luck to all in your endeavors to find out what cave men already knew and what your grandaddy forgot to tell you.