Looking to get first machine for footwear making, any thoughts on singer 29 and Politype leather patcher clones?

[AriShaster]

2 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

Don't expect professional results from one of those Chinese or Vietnamese patch machines.

Does that mean you recommend the singer 29 clone? 

[Constabulary]

When I look at the seams most likely a double needle post bed machine with shifted needles. Something like a GOLDEN WHEEL CS-820 or Techsew 830-2 or old machines like Singer 52w or s Singer 236 (don`t know the double needle sub classes) or something similar.

But as I said, I´m not s shoe maker.

Just now, AriShaster said:

Does that mean you recommend the singer 29 clone? 

I´m sure he does not - the 29K is also a patching / repair machine but a bit more advanced design but it is basically doing the same job.

Edited September 15, 2020 by Constabulary

[AriShaster]

12 minutes ago, Constabulary said:

When I look at the seams most likely a double needle post bed machine with shifted needles. Something like a GOLDEN WHEEL CS-820 or Techsew 830-2 or old machines like Singer 52w or s Singer 236 (don`t know the double needle sub classes) or something similar.

But as I said, I´m not s shoe maker.

I´m sure he does not - the 29K is also a patching / repair machine but a bit more advanced design but it is basically doing the same job.

I see, so one of those high post bed machines. I was watching a video on some doing a repair with them and he commented on how often the bed is simply to big, and its obvious something similar can be accomplished much more easily with say the singer clone. I havent seen many of those high post machines however, and so far the most ideal one has been a puritian leather stitcher like this. Is puritan the only one that makes them like this? They are the only ones I have seen doing this style with an extremely small bed.

 

[arashikage]

If you are wanting to make shoes / boots then a post bed to stitch the uppers and lining is the way to go. Examples: Cowboy 810 or 8810, Cobra 8810, Adler 888 or something along those lines. You can attach the welt by hand and hand stitch the sole. Or stitch the welt by hand and guy an outsole stitcher, like Wiz mentioned, to attach the sole. Not sure how much room you have or budget you have. 

 

[Constabulary]

The Puritan is a heavy needle and awl machine - a totally different machine and very expensive. They are used for heavy work boot (like Red Wing) and is using extremely thick (often waxed) linen thread. Your appears to be a light weight / female fashion shoe.

Check these videos - from min 4.28 onward you see how shoe uppers are sewn (here a 1 need needle machine as it seems)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XpKTG6_nls

Here from min 2.27 onward

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILu_6QpF0EU

This BTW is a video from a dealer showing a machine like the CS-810 (one needle - CS-820 is a double needle machine)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4jpqkAlyr4

This is a double needle post bed machine with shifted double needle:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inC_vlZhdG8

Just to give you an idea what kind of machines are often used for sewing shoe uppers.

 

I would recommend you check with a sewing machine dealer, tell him what you want to do and I´m sure he points you in the right direction.

 

Edited September 15, 2020 by Constabulary

[Aven]

Check out the Chicago Shoe School.  It's not exactly next door, but it's closer than NYC or Portland.

https://www.chicagoschoolofshoemaking.com/

[AriShaster]

4 hours ago, arashikage said:

If you are wanting to make shoes / boots then a post bed to stitch the uppers and lining is the way to go. Examples: Cowboy 810 or 8810, Cobra 8810, Adler 888 or something along those lines. You can attach the welt by hand and hand stitch the sole. Or stitch the welt by hand and guy an outsole stitcher, like Wiz mentioned, to attach the sole. Not sure how much room you have or budget you have. 

 

What is is the disadvantage with using a singer 29 style machine over that wheel style post bed? 

 

[arashikage]

For one, the bobbin size. The 29 does not have a big enough bobbin to do a pair of shoes. Second, the wheel provides constant pressure on the work and provides better control. Another, is you can change stitch per inch much easier on a post bed. I’m not sure you can change the number of stitches on all 29 models. Typically, different styles of shoes have a different stitch count. My Cowboy 810 can do 5 - 21 SPI, I believe.

I recommend checking out Marcell Mrsan’s channel. He mostly does shoes but the same principles apply in upper making.

[dikman]

You seem fixated on using one of the patcher type machines to make your shoes, even though the advice here is that they're not suitable. A company called Robin Industries has posted a few times on here, advertising specialist shoe making machines. Good luck trying to make a decent pair of shoes with one of those cheap Chinese patchers.

[AriShaster]

5 hours ago, arashikage said:

For one, the bobbin size. The 29 does not have a big enough bobbin to do a pair of shoes. Second, the wheel provides constant pressure on the work and provides better control. Another, is you can change stitch per inch much easier on a post bed. I’m not sure you can change the number of stitches on all 29 models. Typically, different styles of shoes have a different stitch count. My Cowboy 810 can do 5 - 21 SPI, I believe.

I recommend checking out Marcell Mrsan’s channel. He mostly does shoes but the same principles apply in upper making.

oh well I guess that makes obvious sense. The reason I was more interested in the singer 29 was because it was being sold for only 1200, while these wheel based sewers with a high post where all going for at least 3k plus or more. I will check out that channel.