Hypothetical Question

[Chris623]

I'm just getting into leather working.  I'm a blade maker and will be making sheaths.  Yesterday while browsing sheath pictures, I saw a lot that had snake skins and other exotics inlaid in them.  If I'm doing a stacked sheath, each layer (obviously) adds thickness to the finished sheath.  Not wanting to end up with a knife sheath that's too thick, I'm wondering how to thin the top layer of Veg-tan down uniformly to compensate for the added thickness of the exotic. ???  I've seen skiving machines that look as if they'd do a fine job, but that's a tool that will never sit on my bench because of the cost.  How can this situation be addressed economically?

[billybopp]

Powered skivers are fairly pricey, but pull skivers are more affordable, but limited to 3-4" width.  That should be plenty for all but the biggest sheaths.  We're still talking about a couple hundred $, but far less than the thousand $ for a power skiver.  You can also skive by hand using a safety skiver, but that takes a lot of skill and practice.

- Bill

[Chris623]

Thank you for responding so quickly.  Even a "couple hundred" would be out of range for the few number of sheaths I'll be making.  And as few as I'll be making, I doubt I'd ever acquire the skill to hand-skive the leather.  Thanks much, Bill.  Learned something new today.  I feel like a sponge soaking up all this stuff I'm picking up on the site.

[chuck123wapati]

30 minutes ago, Chris623 said:

Thank you for responding so quickly.  Even a "couple hundred" would be out of range for the few number of sheaths I'll be making.  And as few as I'll be making, I doubt I'd ever acquire the skill to hand-skive the leather.  Thanks much, Bill.  Learned something new today.  I feel like a sponge soaking up all this stuff I'm picking up on the site.

make your self a skiver! if you can make a blade you can make a skiver.

[DaveP]

I don't think the overall thickness will be much more than any normal sheath with 3 layers of veg tan. The inlays are cut out so the snake or whatever has a place to go. Some even put padding between to raise the inlay. The layer on top of the blade is much thinner. You can order it that way ...split is what it's called... down to like 3-4oz. Then you have an outline piece of 7-9oz range on top, plus your back piece. 

[Chris623]

Oh, I have no doubt I'll be making a skiver for my leather work.  But I was looking for a way to thin down a full piece...........as if I were running it through my wood planer.  I've considered attaching a piece of leather to a piece of wood and running it through my planer.  It's a Helix-bladded one that might do a pretty good job.  We'll see................................if I ever get the chance to try it.

1 minute ago, DaveP said:

I don't think the overall thickness will be much more than any normal sheath with 3 layers of veg tan. The inlays are cut out so the snake or whatever has a place to go. Some even put padding between to raise the inlay. The layer on top of the blade is much thinner. You can order it that way ...split is what it's called... down to like 3-4oz. Then you have an outline piece of 7-9oz range on top, plus your back piece. 

Didn't know I could order it that way.  Interesting.  I'm a newbie, for sure.

[fredk]

I use this for skiving the ends of belt straps. It will cope with up to about 60mm wide

This might do strips wide enough for sheaths. You can buy it from about £25 to £95 depending on the seller. Mine cost me £28

[zuludog]

I've never done inlay work on a sheath, or anything else for that matter, but I know the principle -

The front part of the sheath is sewn at the edges, and has a hole in the middle for the inlay 

The decorative/exotic inlay piece is placed under the front part but doesn't reach as far as the edge; it is sewn just around the border of the hole

Skive the edge of the inlay and under the perimeter of the hole so that it isn't too thick, and doesn't have a step on the front piece

 Alternatively use an inlay that reaches to the edge of the sheath, and skive both the inlay and the front piece so that the edge of the sheath isn't too thick . Skive and sew down around the edge of the hole 

Search YouTube for 'leather inlay knife sheath' and 'skiving leather', there are several videos

For skiving larger areas than just the edges or ends of leather I use a razor plane, which is like a finer version of a carpenter's plane It is a reasonably priced compromise between the ease of  an expensive skiving machine and the difficulty of using a freehand skiving knife or even a Safety skiver on larger areas 

Edited September 23, 2020 by zuludog

[Chris623]

8 minutes ago, fredk said:

I use this for skiving the ends of belt straps. It will cope with up to about 60mm wide

This might do strips wide enough for sheaths. You can buy it from about £25 to £95 depending on the seller. Mine cost me £28

Thanks for that.  Never have seen a tool like that one!

 

4 minutes ago, zuludog said:

The decorative/exotic inlay piece is placed under the front part but doesn't reach as far as the edge; it is sewn just around the border of the hole

Skive the edge of the inlay and under the perimeter of the hole so that it isn't too thick, and doesn't have a step on the front piece

 Alternatively use an inlay that reaches to the edge of the sheath, and skive both the inlay and the front piece so that the edge of the sheath isn't too thick . Skive and sew down around the edge of the hole 

Appreciate that.  I was under the impression the exotic went all the way to the edge of the sheath and was stitched in with the rest of the layers.

[Rahere]

A wood planer is perfect for the job, if you have one. It's just that leather companies want to split hides which may be an unusable 7-8mm thick into a top split and a suede, each 3-4mm.

[Chris623]

I do, Rahere.  I spent 17 years as a custom furniture builder and had, at one time, a pretty extensive array of woodworking tools and equipment.  I've pared down some of the tools I've pretty much stopped using, but still have a lot that I just "couldn't do without".    I've got a really nice planer.  But my only fear would be having the flexible leather jump up off the table and be destroyed by the cutters.  Maybe if I used a double-sided tape I'd be able to hold it down.  Do you have any experience with this?

[zuludog]

7 minutes ago, Chris623 said:

I do, Rahere.  I spent 17 years as a custom furniture builder and had, at one time, a pretty extensive array of woodworking tools and equipment.  I've pared down some of the tools I've pretty much stopped using, but still have a lot that I just "couldn't do without".    I've got a really nice planer.  But my only fear would be having the flexible leather jump up off the table and be destroyed by the cutters.  Maybe if I used a double-sided tape I'd be able to hold it down.  Do you have any experience with this?

Clamp down your piece of leather at an end or edge, and plane away from that fixed point - assuming you are using a traditional hand plane

As I mentioned, look at YT videos on making an inlay sheath, they show & explain things much better than just words

I would guess that things like snake or fish skin would be pretty thin anyway, and wouldn't add much to the total thickness

Edited September 23, 2020 by zuludog

[Frodo]

Mr Chris,  You are WAY over thinking this

Good luck,  your journey will be fun

 

[Chris623]

"Mr Chris" overthinks everything he does! 

[chrisash]

Many use a spoke-shave to thin leather down never used one except with wood, but I believe saddlers use them quite a lot for leather also French skiver see 

 

[Dwight]

8 minutes ago, Chris623 said:

"Mr Chris" overthinks everything he does! 

Chris . . . the easy way to do this . . . forget about the 7/8 oz leather you would have used.

Get some really good 3/4 that is closer to the 4 side.  You make two sheath blanks . . .  mirror cut from each other.  The piece with the hair side out . . . inlay your snake . . .  sew him in place . .  . . then contact cement both together and from that "one piece" continue making your sheath just as you usually would.

I regularly make 6 shooter holsters this way . . . and when done. . .the nice thing is they are really sturdy.

AND . . . you don't have to skive anything here . . . 

May God bless,

Dwight

[Chris623]

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions, guys.  I'm soakin' them all up like a sponge.  Lots to learn and I'll never learn without asking..........because I'd rather learn from your mistakes than my own.

[Rahere]

His planer is finely settable, a rotating drum with a cutter on each side of the drum. He's got the idea, double-sided tape, although it may be better to damp the leather and wrap it over the ends, using clamp bars screwed into the end grain. It'll be drum taut that way when it dries.

[Chris623]

Mine has a helical cutting head.  It has three spiral rows of little half-inch square cutters, so it makes a really fine cut.............................and won't grab the material like a 3 straight-bladed cutter would.

[fredk]

My thoughts again.

Time is money. If doing just the very occasional inlay its ok to take the time to just skive a piece of leather down. If its going to be a regular offering, let the tannery do the work. Buy in thin leather. Have it on hand. Laminate the inlay within the thinner leather. The thinner leather is often a good bit cheaper than the thicker, even when using two pieces of the thinner to one of the thicker

All these Heath-Robinson set ups to skive a piece of leather can't beat a skiver built for the purpose. A 6 inch wide bench mount skiver costs as little as £100.($130)  At $15 per hour pay say,  it works out cheap. By the time you've mounted a piece of leather up safely, set up your planer you can have had several pieces of leather thru that bench skiver or have cut a year's worth from a thin leather 

Do you buy in 3/4 inch thick steel to reduce it to 1/8 inch for blades? (just sizes to illustrate the point), No, you buy in 1/8 inch.

So you'll buy in to use 2.4 to 3 mm for the sheaths. For inlay laminations you'll use 1.2 to 1.6 mm, buy that and have it on hand, Stored carefully the leather lasts a long time. I'm currently using some 3.5mm Water Buffalo hide I bought about 15 years ago. Its darkened slightly over the years but its still perfectly good

Edited to add

PS. In the picture above for the video imo that is the wrong use for a French Skiver. Its for edges and small areas. For larger areas the Super Skiver is the better tool

https://tandyleather.world/products/super-skiver?_pos=1&_sid=685be2ee6&_ss=r

 

Edited September 24, 2020 by fredk

[Northmount]

Somewhere there is a  thread here about using a bench mounted belt sander to sand the leather to a fixed thickness.  You might want to search for it.  Probably faster to  make the jig for the belt sander and safer than a planer.

Tom

 

[Chris623]

I understand your thoughts, fredk.  But the chances of me making more than 1 or 2 sheaths a year that I need thinner leather for are pretty slim.  I love tools..........and if money were no issue, I'd have a shop full.  When I was a furniture builder I had more "man-toys" than most wood workers could ever hope for.  But I don't see myself needing that kind of inventory for my knife making and leather work.

I designed a thickness sanding jig for a special project many years ago.  But it was for a 4" wide belt sander.   Might look back at it to see if it could be adapted it for leather.

Any way, guys, it's been fun.  I like "hypothetical" questions.  I've learned a bunch I didn't know.  Helps me to think out of the box.  Sometimes when approaching a problem, I put on my blinders and take a straight tack to the destination...............when I should really come about several times by thinking outside the box.  Thanks..........you've helped me do that.

[fredk]

1 hour ago, Chris623 said:

. . .   But the chances of me making more than 1 or 2 sheaths a year that I need thinner leather for are pretty slim. . . .

To me thats even more reason to just have about 5 sq feet of thin leather on hand. Two pieces for a sheath would be 1/2 sq ft, so 5 sq ft would do 8 to 10 sheaths, 5 sq ft would cost $20 to $25 or so, a recoverable cost.

[Chris623]

Okay, thanks.  Didn't know that.