servo enduro Servo motor still too fast

[AmyK]

I’m a newbie to the industrial machine game and I’m feeling really defeated. I have a Nakajima 341L (Juki 1341 clone cylinder arm machine) with a new Enduro  SM600-2P. I’m having the usual uphill battle with figuring out a new machine (I’ve owned several domestics and can sew fabric on those just fine) but I’m feeling like even adjusted all the way down (which I’ve done) I’ll never be able to keep up with this machine’s speed. I’ve read some peoples posts about welding speed reducers which is totally outside my wheel house. Do I look for one? Or a new motor? I don’t even know what I’d be shopping for. 
The man who sold it to me is incredibly nice and sells and services machines- he’s been out here once and didn’t even charge me, says he’s really invested in making sure it’s up and running- but I don’t know what to do. Do I keep trying? Throw some more money at this problem and buy another motor? There’s no returns it was a Craigslist purchase. I’ve got some serious buyers remorse. I want to love this but I’m mostly just cussing and stubbing my toe on it. 

[Wizcrafts]

I have added 3:1 speed reducers to most of my machines. That usually does the trick for me and should for you too. The question is what type of reducer to buy and who is going to install it? Then there's the question about your motor. Does it start up with a jolt at a couple hundred rpm? If so, does it have pushbuttons to control it? That type of servo is very hard to control and I have removed any like that and replaced them with this type of knob controlled servo motor. This motor starts at zero and speeds up to the preset limit of the knob. Heck, you may find that you don't really need a reducer with this motor.

Note that when you change motor types, or add reducers, the v-belt length/lengths will change too.

[AmyK]

1 hour ago, Wizcrafts said:

I have added 3:1 speed reducers to most of my machines. That usually does the trick for me and should for you too. The question is what type of reducer to buy and who is going to install it? Then there's the question about your motor. Does it start up with a jolt at a couple hundred rpm? If so, does it have pushbuttons to control it? That type of servo is very hard to control and I have removed any like that and replaced them with this type of knob controlled servo motor. This motor starts at zero and speeds up to the preset limit of the knob. Heck, you may find that you don't really need a reducer with this motor.

Note that when you change motor types, or add reducers, the v-belt length/lengths will change too.

You have to crawl under the table and enter the setup mode to change speed and startup speed. I have the overall speed and the length of time the startup speed lasts turned to the slowest possible. There is no knob. It just seems like there’s no “play” in the pedal. It’s off or it’s ON. I think I could pay the guy I bought it from to swap it out, but I don’t even know what I’m potentially buying. Or how much of an investment I’m looking at. 
 

(Thanks Wiz, I always like to hear your thoughts on things) 

[Pintodeluxe]

I agree with, and have followed Wizcrafts advice, to great success. 

I went with the simple dial type servo.  It's sold under half a dozen trade names like eagle, family, new tech etc.

Then I changed the motor pulley from 70mm to 45mm.  That helped to slow it down, but I didn't have much power.  Especially if the speed was set really low.  So I added a box style speed reducer.  That got me where I wanted to be.  Nice and slow, and easy to control.  Plus gobs of punching power. 

So this brings us to your situation... since you already have a nice servo, just add a box style speed reducer.  They mount to the table using the existing holes.  Really easy to do.  Then, as Wiz pointed out, make sure to program your motor for slow take-off.  Most motor manuals are available online.  

That's what I would do... keep your servo for now, and get a box style reducer.

Worst case scenario, you have to swap out the servo down the road.       

Edited October 15, 2020 by Pintodeluxe

[Uwe]

The Enduro motors have no setting to adjust starting speed (just the initial time delay) and they do start at around three hundred RPM. I’ve had Enduro motors before and I don’t really like them. You can always sell yours on CraigsList again and get a better option.

The “Family Sew” style knob control motors mentioned above are decent, but old-school in terms of servo motor technology and not without their own problems. I personally don’t like the motor brushes that wear out, the useless motor brake pad that just gets in the way unless you remove it, and the motor torque (punching power) is rather low at slow speeds. These motor do really require a pulley speed reducers to work well for leather work. The motor plus pulley speed reducer will run over $300,  not exactly cheap. But it’s what the North American market settles for. It’s what’s readily available through dealers and Ebay here in the US.

There are modern servo motors available with full low-end torque and very good low speed control systems that allow you to sew at stitch-per-second speeds without requiring speed reducer pulleys. They also a support needle positioning, which apparently you either love or hate with no middle ground. Unfortunately, most of these motors are not sold in the US. The only exception I’m aware of is the SP1100 motor, sold by Keystone and SewPro. Of course EFKA motors are an option, but US consumers are generally unwilling to pay for that level of quality.

Personally, I’ve been buying my motors directly from manufacturers in China. Alas, that is not everybody’s cup of tea and requires a sense of adventure as well as self-reliance in terms of repairs. But I do love those motors and haven’t had a dud yet. 

If you need somebody to call when things go bump in the seam, settle for what’s available locally and buy from a dealer who offers support.

 

 

 

 

  

 

 

Edited October 15, 2020 by Uwe

[toxo]

5 hours ago, AmyK said:

I’m a newbie to the industrial machine game and I’m feeling really defeated. I have a Nakajima 341L (Juki 1341 clone cylinder arm machine) with a new Enduro  SM600-2P. I’m having the usual uphill battle with figuring out a new machine (I’ve owned several domestics and can sew fabric on those just fine) but I’m feeling like even adjusted all the way down (which I’ve done) I’ll never be able to keep up with this machine’s speed. I’ve read some peoples posts about welding speed reducers which is totally outside my wheel house. Do I look for one? Or a new motor? I don’t even know what I’d be shopping for. 
The man who sold it to me is incredibly nice and sells and services machines- he’s been out here once and didn’t even charge me, says he’s really invested in making sure it’s up and running- but I don’t know what to do. Do I keep trying? Throw some more money at this problem and buy another motor? There’s no returns it was a Craigslist purchase. I’ve got some serious buyers remorse. I want to love this but I’m mostly just cussing and stubbing my toe on it. 

I don't get it. All the established gurus seem to promote the box type reducer which is beyond the ability of most people and takes a considerable amount of time to gather the components and put something together.

On my Durkopp 239 and my Adler 69 all I did was change out the standard handwheel for a much larger pulley and a smaller pulley on the servo motor. The result gives more torque and I can do a stitch at a time. Once you have the pulleys it takes around 1 to 2 hours to do and costs no more than  a third of the cost of a box type or less.

Perhaps someone will say what's wrong with doing it this way?

[Uwe]

Nothing wrong with installing the smallest possible pulley on the motor (usually 45mm or 50mm) - I order my motors with the smallest possible pulley to start. A larger hand wheel or a large pulley to replace the hand wheel may be a little trickier to find, depending on the machine. If that puts your machine in the speed comfort zone, you’re good.

[dikman]

"No play in the pedal" doesn't sound right, pedal movement should move an arm on the motor controller that will vary the speed. Can you post a couple of photos? Replacing the hand-wheel with a larger pulley works well BUT it isn't usually an easy option as it requires some mechanical nous. A box reducer, as mentioned, will be the simplest to fit as it is a fairly simple job but may require new belts.

[Kcstott]

1 minute ago, dikman said:

"No play in the pedal" doesn't sound right, pedal movement should move an arm on the motor controller that will vary the speed. Can you post a couple of photos? Replacing the hand-wheel with a larger pulley works well BUT it isn't usually an easy option as it requires some mechanical nous. A box reducer, as mentioned, will be the simplest to fit as it is a fairly simple job but may require new belts.

What I think is meant is the motor doesn't ramp up to speed. 

[Gymnast]

4 hours ago, Uwe said:

There are modern servo motors available with full low-end torque and very good low speed control systems that allow you to sew at stitch-per-second speeds without requiring speed reducer pulleys. They also a support needle positioning, which apparently you either love or hate with no middle ground. Unfortunately, most of these motors are not sold in the US. The only exception I’m aware of is the SP1100 motor, sold by Keystone and SewPro.

Uwe, when I look at you link to Keystone, I guess the motor got a minimum constant speed of 100 RPM. And I have not seen brushless servo motors with a lower speed than that. Have you seen lower speed than 100 RPM?

 

5 hours ago, AmyK said:

. It just seems like there’s no “play” in the pedal.

For some years ago a problem with some servo motors with this issue were debated. It may be this problem you see:

https://leatherworker.net/forum/topic/41916-having-problems-with-servo-motor-speed-control/