binder question

[keithski122]

I'm just in the process of sorting out a binder attachment  and was wondering what the bent wire is for. I know the binding feeds through it but is it for extra tension or just to guide it into the binder better? On my set up it will need rebending as the flatbed of my machine is in the way, however this means the tape will be higher than the binder shell.

[Wizcrafts]

The bent wires are a guide to maintain alignment and a smooth entry into the folder body. The way the spool is mounted determines the back pressure. You want the least drag on the spool as possible. I once had a custom platter for edge binding spools that road on ball bearings and extended horizontally over the back of the table.

[keithski122]

Thank you. Its for carpet binding with the binding being strips of leather or vinyl, maximum  I guess of three metres long so no spool.I'll leave the wire off and see how it goes, at the moment its more important to get everything else lined up right.

Just for information binder has throat of 9mm material thickness, with binding material size of 26mm (1 inch) 1.8mm thickness.

[Wizcrafts]

8 hours ago, keithski122 said:

Thank you. Its for carpet binding with the binding being strips of leather or vinyl, maximum  I guess of three metres long so no spool.I'll leave the wire off and see how it goes, at the moment its more important to get everything else lined up right.

Just for information binder has throat of 9mm material thickness, with binding material size of 26mm (1 inch) 1.8mm thickness.

If you don't mind, please post a link to that binder attachment.

[keithski122]

Binder attachment:-

 

https://www.khsew.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=369&product_id=1900

[kgg]

On 1/30/2021 at 7:03 PM, keithski122 said:

as the flatbed of my machine

Are you trying to attach this to a flatbed or cylinder bed machine?

kgg

[keithski122]

On a flatbed machine.I've previously fitted a different binder but never got it working quite right due to the binder not being suitable for a thicker material.It worked but seemed to stretch the binding.Heres some pics of how it was with the older binder and binding results.

[nylonRigging]

27 minutes ago, keithski122 said:

On a flatbed machine.I've previously fitted a different binder but never got it working quite right due to the binder not being suitable for a thicker material.It worked but seemed to stretch the binding.Heres some pics of how it was with the older binder and binding results.

you don't have any adjustable play for height and angle in that Binder setup, on the flatbed . looks to be that the throat is screwed down to side-plate, with limited only a In-Out play for how close you want to the foot/needle . also maybe put a picture up with a more top view of your attachment .
what exactly is your machine ?
.

Edited January 31, 2021 by nylonRigging

[Uwe]

I just got that same tape folder to try out on my 441 class machines. I think it’s designed for application where the tape folder floats in mid-air, mounted to a swiveling arm. 

That tape folder is BIG and I think it’s designed for 441 class machines (also implied by the KHF-441 part number.) It has an offset on the underside to lower it for proper alignment with the throat plate. I don’t think this tape folder is suitable for mounting to the slide plate of a flatbed machine. 

Here are some pictures of mine (wire guide not installed):

 

There’s more to the binding story, especially more parts. Here’s the full set of parts I got to make this tape folder work on a 441 class machine. I’ll make a separate topic once I’ve had a chance to try it out. This photo is just to illustrate that it takes more than just a tape folder to do binding on certain machines. 

 

 

Edited January 31, 2021 by Uwe

[keithski122]

At the moment all binding I do is by hand so just playing about to see if I can get a neater/quicker finish, if it doesn't work no great loss I'll continue to do it by hand.

The set up above worked in a straight line apart from stretching the binding causing the carpet to wrinkle.I don't think I tried it on a curve.I've set it on a spare plate so if I get it to work it will be a straight forwards job just to change the plate and the feet and off I go.Binder is fixed as close as posssible to the feet on max stitch length with a couple of mm clearance, once set should not need moving, height is a low down as possible.With the new attachment I've mounted it using an adapter plate so if I need to adjust it back or forth its a simple job to make a new plate.Machine is a typical tw1-899 used for all aspects of auto upholstery so can't be set up purely for binding.

Edited January 31, 2021 by keithski122

[nylonRigging]

1 hour ago, Uwe said:

There’s more to the binding story, especially more parts. Here’s the full set of parts I got to make this tape folder work on a 441 class machine. I’ll make a separate topic once I’ve had a chance to try it out. This photo is just... to illustrate that it takes more than just a tape folder to do binding on certain machines. 

 

What Uwe is saying . looks like a Binder for floating on cylinder bed . Flatbed set-up is a different animal , but No reason why you cant put together a Binder to do what you want on a Flatbed if that what machine you going for, and material you edge binding .

But..  ( All I know, is what I do ) , and for advice, all related mostly to the materials/items I design, sew and sell, doing the same sewing for quit some time . My personal Binding knowledge is deep, but narrow niche . All my sew/Binding knowledge is tuned around set-ups on the Flatbed, and for single and double needle, and I personally prefer ( Needle Feeds ), with usually using different 3/4" to 1" width Binding .
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I put this Pic. up here once (for an example ) for slide-plate mounts with binders sometime back . This Pic. is flat bed, right angle, R-side slide-plate mount for double needle. That thick heavy binder throat in the Pic. , I had Tenn. attachment solder up . But I put adjustments in the swing arm for some height and angle . Also 3/32"  raised Dog and Throat plate work with the Binder for added adjustment .
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[DonInReno]

Uwe sorry this is so off topic, but when this was found it made me chuckle.....

On a picking adventure to an obscure little town, at a little old ladies part time upholstery shop, wedged in the drawer of an unused sewing table was an operating instruction manual and on the back cover there you were!   I think that makes you officially famous. Lol

[Uwe]

@DonInReno thanks for sharing! I’ll try not to let all that fame go to my head 

[kgg]

On 1/30/2021 at 9:04 PM, keithski122 said:

Just for information binder has throat of 9mm material thickness, with binding material size of 26mm (1 inch) 1.8mm thickness.

Why not just purchase the standard flatbed binding attachments that are readily available and inexpensive (around $15.00 or less). Also they will help in reducing the drag which I figure is also contributing your binding material being stretched. Any time something makes a 90 degree bend you increase the pull/stress required. On a sewing machine this puts additional stresses on the pressor foot/ needle feed / feed dog mechanisms. Also adding a horizontal binding spool arrangement with bearings, as Wiz suggested, will drastically reduce those stresses and provide a more even dispensing of the binding material off the spool. All my machines (flatbed or cylinder) use the horizontal bearing spool arrangement. The only difference is I use the standard el cheapo binding attachments made for the flatbeds on my cylinder machine. That way I don't have to have one style of attachments dedicated for the flatbeds and one style dedicated for the cylinder machines.

Something to consider,

kgg