Binding Attachment issues...

[kgg]

1 hour ago, Constabulary said:

An interesting setup you have there!

Thanks Constabulary, all my own designs and the best part they work. I just could not/ would not pay the $200 for a 90 degree binder setup and having to buy new binders in the various sizes I use. All the attachments I have for the flatbeds are now inter-changeable with the cylinder bed so it was cost effective way around the problem.

 

11 minutes ago, MtlBiker said:

Are these what are called "right-angle" binders?  Is the binding meant to feed in from the right (at 90 degrees to the stitch direction) and then turn sharply 90 degrees to meet the fabric that's being bound?  If not, it looks to me that the item being bound has to be on the right of the needle (stitch line) and the binding comes in from the left.  That couldn't be, could it?  Sorry to expose my ignorance about this. 

Yes it is a right angle binder and the tape gets feed / weaved along the metal wire loops into the binder body with the tape exiting the other side and making the sharp 90 degree turn at the other end where the fabric is feed between the loop that is created. What was the approximate cost of the binder from Chris?

kgg

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

Tenn. Attach. sells a 460B with 1/4" mouth opening.  Nothing generic is going to work for this application that I can think of.

[MtlBiker]

18 minutes ago, kgg said:

Yes it is a right angle binder and the tape gets feed / weaved along the metal wire loops into the binder body with the tape exiting the other side and making the sharp 90 degree turn at the other end where the fabric is feed between the loop that is created. What was the approximate cost of the binder from Chris?

kgg

I hope it'll fit on my 206RB.  I'll know in a few hours when I get home tonight.  The cost was $65 Cdn each, plus shipping.  I also got a set of presser feet for binding, for $40.

[Wizcrafts]

3 hours ago, MtlBiker said:

I hope it'll fit on my 206RB.  I'll know in a few hours when I get home tonight.  The cost was $65 Cdn each, plus shipping.  I also got a set of presser feet for binding, for $40.

FYI, back around 1990 I was hired to sew reflective safety vests for a one man company in Toronto. I was tasked with obtaining all of the equipment and supplies. This included getting a custom right angle binder attachment made for his brand new Juki LU-563. That attachment cost him $428 in 1990. Everything was purchased through General Industrial Sewing Machines.

[MtlBiker]

Could this be right?  I was expecting a swing-away binder (as per my email to the supplier) with a bigger mouth, but this isn't swing away, and I really can't see how it fits properly on ny Consew 206RB-5 (also specified in my email).  This is as close as I can get it to the needle and stitch path.  I can't believe this is the way it's supposed to fit.

My guess (inexperienced me) is that it should fit much closer to the needle and stitch path as the second photo below (where the binder attachment isn't attached to anything at all).

 

[DonInReno]

New holes are often required for many attachments - It wouldn’t be unheard of to drill and tap the needle plate (on the right side so a screw misses the hook), or to mount your binder to a flat plate that then reaches back to your existing holes.    You might even mount it to a larger plate and tape it down.    Old factory machines are sometimes peppered with holes, and binders are silver soldered to anything and everything, but with a little work it shouldn’t be too hard to reach existing holes.    I seem to recall someone even used epoxy to glue a binder to a flat plate that was as wide as the table top and it was clamped down to the table.  Lol

[Wizcrafts]

1 hour ago, MtlBiker said:

This is as close as I can get it to the needle and stitch path.  I can't believe this is the way it's supposed to fit.

You are correct. That is not how it works. You actually need several parts to properly use this attachment. They are as follows.

• Right angle folder (you have that) on a sliding mounting plate that lets you position it up to the feed dog.
• A special feed dog and throat plate set that clears the nose of the folder.
• A short, wide inside foot
• A left toe only outside presser foot.
• A revolving platter for the large spools of bias tape.

[nylonRigging]

what Don and Wizcrafts is saying .. . You will be picking up a lot of small facts in a fast,short time . so don't feel overwhelmed and stay relaxed.

Mounting brackets and direct deck mounts, Drilling and Tapping is no biggie and is all but expected, .. PLUS your going to want to get more Presser Feet... LOL ..  fitting/cutting/file/trimming Feet, to fit your need is all part of Binders .
All tools you will get good at using . small R-angle Drill , Thread Taps . Then Cut/Dremel , Grinder and a File. a small Vice.  To shape Feet for a mounting Binder into a workable slot .

You spend many Hundreds-$ on a top-shelf Binder, or folders,  Or just spend 20-$ for generic Binder off EBay . But all have one thing common in the end everyone deals with . YOU Alone have to make this happen . For a fact, you all by yourself  ( will spend Many Hours ) . in finding that,  perfect Spot to mount, with just the right Distance, correct Height and perfect angle of Feed . All set in that perfect slot set into the side of your Presser Foot, That most times you have to make.

Your picking up and building a lot of good knowledge to have.  1st time new Binder Set-up, It's always Pain in the Ass, but it does get way easier after you do it a couple times and get your head wrapped around the basics . This 1st trip your now taking.  You will be gathering a lot of little details and store them away in your head, that you will come in pretty handy latter down the road.  Because if you are sewing for any amount of time.  You will have 'want'  more Binders setup on this same machine, or Binders on a different machines.
.

[Constabulary]

Modifying things (like attachments or presser feet and so forth ) is a fairly common work when dealing with industrial sewing machines. For certain machines you can buy "special" things off the shelf but for some sewing tasks or others machines you have to be DIY things or you have to pay big $$ and buy them from attachment manufacturing companies. There are many many variables you sometimes have to consider...

There are certain right angle binder kits for 206RB machines But they are not "swing away"

This is how a binder plate looks like

 

 

EDIT:

just to give you another idea - there are "swing away brackets" for sewing guides but I´m but sure if they can be attached to the 206RB:

https://www.college-sewing.co.uk/226292-swing-guide-singer-111w-211w-211g.html

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Swing-Away-Edge-Sewing-Guide-226292-For-Industrial-Walking-Foot-Sewing-Machine/401372513600

But it for sure requires some tingeing if you want to attach a binder bracket.

So regarding tinkering and figuring out the "how to" - here is an interesting thread for attaching binders to 111 type machines.

You see - not always a simple task but doable.

 

 

Edited February 24, 2021 by Constabulary

[MtlBiker]

13 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

You are correct. That is not how it works. You actually need several parts to properly use this attachment. They are as follows.

• Right angle folder (you have that) on a sliding mounting plate that lets you position it up to the feed dog.
• A special feed dog and throat plate set that clears the nose of the folder.
• A short, wide inside foot
• A left toe only outside presser foot.
• A revolving platter for the large spools of bias tape.

Looks like I'm missing the special feed dog and throat plate set as I have no place to attach the binder.  And there's no way of attaching it to the swing-away binders I  have either as the holes are in the wrong orientation to allow the binder to be positioned correctly.  I have the special binding foot with short wide inside foot and only a narrow left toe presser foot.

I'm just a hobbyist (and a novice one at that) so I'll never be doing production runs.  Is it a big job to change the feed dog and throat plate?  Does it need careful adjustment or just simply screw it in?  I've heard that many sewers dedicate a machine for bindings which makes it sound like not a trivial task to change the feed dog and throat plate.

[MtlBiker]

13 hours ago, nylonRigging said:

what Don and Wizcrafts is saying .. . You will be picking up a lot of small facts in a fast,short time . so don't feel overwhelmed and stay relaxed.

Mounting brackets and direct deck mounts, Drilling and Tapping is no biggie and is all but expected, .. PLUS your going to want to get more Presser Feet... LOL ..  fitting/cutting/file/trimming Feet, to fit your need is all part of Binders .
All tools you will get good at using . small R-angle Drill , Thread Taps . Then Cut/Dremel , Grinder and a File. a small Vice.  To shape Feet for a mounting Binder into a workable slot .

You spend many Hundreds-$ on a top-shelf Binder, or folders,  Or just spend 20-$ for generic Binder off EBay . But all have one thing common in the end everyone deals with . YOU Alone have to make this happen . For a fact, you all by yourself  ( will spend Many Hours ) . in finding that,  perfect Spot to mount, with just the right Distance, correct Height and perfect angle of Feed . All set in that perfect slot set into the side of your Presser Foot, That most times you have to make.

Your picking up and building a lot of good knowledge to have.  1st time new Binder Set-up, It's always Pain in the Ass, but it does get way easier after you do it a couple times and get your head wrapped around the basics . This 1st trip your now taking.  You will be gathering a lot of little details and store them away in your head, that you will come in pretty handy latter down the road.  Because if you are sewing for any amount of time.  You will have 'want'  more Binders setup on this same machine, or Binders on a different machines.
.

Good advice, but hard to stay relaxed and not feel overwhelmed.  I was really hoping that what I ordered (after explaining what I wanted) was going to be pretty much plug and play.  So now it's going to take another week (probably longer) before I can get this set up (thanks to a day job which takes most of my time).  I'm thinking I should have ordered the one Sailrite sells, which is supposed to be able to bind up to 3.6mm thick assemblies.  That one is swing-away and probably would have worked for my current need.  But the cost, cost of shipping and duty, to me in Canada makes it rather expensive.  And even with expensive shipping it would take about a week.

In your list of tools above, you mention a right-angle drill...  I don't think I've ever seen one.  What would that be used for in this context?

And I'm afraid I'm not clear on your "To shape Feet for a mounting Binder into a workable slot" comment.  I received a special binding presser foot set yesterday and think that wouldn't need any modification to work.  It's got only a narrow left presser foot and quite large (short and wide) inside foot. 

[MtlBiker]

6 hours ago, Constabulary said:

Modifying things (like attachments or presser feet and so forth ) is a fairly common work when dealing with industrial sewing machines. For certain machines you can buy "special" things off the shelf but for some sewing tasks or others machines you have to be DIY things or you have to pay big $$ and buy them from attachment manufacturing companies. There are many many variables you sometimes have to consider...

There are certain right angle binder kits for 206RB machines But they are not "swing away"

This is how a binder plate looks like

 

 

EDIT:

just to give you another idea - there are "swing away brackets" for sewing guides but I´m but sure if they can be attached to the 206RB:

https://www.college-sewing.co.uk/226292-swing-guide-singer-111w-211w-211g.html

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Swing-Away-Edge-Sewing-Guide-226292-For-Industrial-Walking-Foot-Sewing-Machine/401372513600

But it for sure requires some tingeing if you want to attach a binder bracket.

So regarding tinkering and figuring out the "how to" - here is an interesting thread for attaching binders to 111 type machines.

You see - not always a simple task but doable.

 

 

I really didn't expect to have to modify things in order to use a binder attachment.  (Probably due to my lack of experience, but I thought the Consew 206RB-5 was such a common machine that "canned" solutions should exist.  I thought I was buying that.)

Thank you for the links and the photo of the throat plate.  I'm ready to order a throat plate and feed dog set from eBay but I'm going to do a little more searching first.   All of the ones on eBay that I looked at say it would only arrive (here in Canada) around the 3rd week of March.  And I really wanted to finish a project much faster (by the weekend hopefully!). 

There's a Consew dealer here in Montreal... I'll see if they have one.  (Probably the most expensive option though.)

[nylonRigging]

2 hours ago, MtlBiker said:

In your list of tools above, you mention a right-angle drill...  I don't think I've ever seen one.  What would that be used for in this context?

And I'm afraid I'm not clear on your "To shape Feet for a mounting Binder into a workable slot" comment.  I received a special binding presser foot set yesterday and think that wouldn't need any modification to work.  It's got only a narrow left presser foot and quite large (short and wide) inside foot. 

 Most anytime you want to drill/tap a hole on the Flatbed.  The Machine body overhangs blocking your average pistol grip style Drill from anywhere near getting your Bit Plumb.  A small R-angle drill will get you into the places with little workable headroom clearance .

You particular model Consew is single-needle, and does offer very affordable and wide selection of Presser feet.  You might get lucky and not have to Modify your R-side of your presser foot at all . It all depends on model type machine you are putting a Binder to, and it's offered selection of Feet, and just how close you have to get to that Needle for your feed.
.

[MtlBiker]

10 minutes ago, nylonRigging said:

 Most anytime you want to drill/tap a hole on the Flatbed.  The Machine body overhangs blocking your average pistol grip style Drill from anywhere near getting your Bit Plumb.  A small R-angle drill will get you into the places with little workable headroom clearance .

You particular model Consew is single-needle, and does offer very affordable and wide selection of Presser feet.  You might get lucky and not have to Modify your R-side of your presser foot at all . It all depends on model type machine you are putting a Binder to, and it's offered selection of Feet, and just how close you have to get to that Needle for your feed.
.

Thanks so much for the further info!  I just wasn't thinking of drilling into the flatbed part of the machine (duh!) which is why I couldn't see a use for the right-angle drill.

As far as custom making some kind of mounting for the right-angle binder attachment I have, with my lack of experience with binders, I don't think I'll tackle it.  I don't even know exactly where the binder attachment needs to be positioned for proper binding, so wouldn't be able to make a mount in the proper place.  I wish I could see a properly set up machine in operation and then I'd probably have a better idea.  If I can find one of those binder throat plates and feed dog, would the holes in the plate be correct for attaching the binder in the right place?  I'm talking fore and aft, not side to side which could probably be adjusted.

Is installing the binder throat plate and feed dog something complicated?  Is it straight-forward, or is there some careful adjustment needed?  I'm asking because I wonder how convenient it is (or isn't) to switch back and forth from regular sewing to binding.  I've often heard that some people dedicate a machine to binding (I certainly wouldn't be doing enough of it) which makes me believe it might be somewhat complicated to set up.

 

[Stella202]

I am in the USA and have been reading this thread with great interest - thanks for the post.  But can anyone give some USA based suppliers I can check out that don't have large min buys?  I want to use leather binding - will I have to make my own or is there a supplier out there?

 

Thanks for letting me jump in.