Looking for a leather sewing machine, but only have a limited space

[sbrownn]

1 minute ago, JayEhl said:

The cowboy outlaw hand crank?

No, that is a different machine and it would be almost impossible to motorize it.

[kgg]

On 3/22/2021 at 10:52 PM, FellowLeathersmith said:

I'm looking a sewing machine that doesn't take too much space.

 

1 hour ago, sbrownn said:

Campbell Randall needle and awl machine.

I don't really think the Campbell Randall falls within the "doesn't take to much space" category of machines. It probably weights in at north of 150 lb.

kgg

[Wizcrafts]

3 hours ago, JayEhl said:

The cowboy outlaw hand crank?

No. The machine mentioned is a Cowboy CB3200, detailed here. You would have to call the dealer for a price for the head only, or on a tiny table, with a Barney handle on the flywheel.

[JayEhl]

Ahhh...I see.  Yea...that's a beauty.   Can't believe there isn't a dealer in the Houston area not that I can afford one right away, anyway.        

Thanks for the follow up, though.  

[FellowLeathersmith]

On 3/22/2021 at 10:28 PM, kgg said:

As listed in their menu "Leatherwork sewing machine" These are just a their portable LS model painted green instead of the rust brown with a maximum thread size of V92. However they did table mounted them on a nice compact table and coupled it with a nice servo motor on it. They use to be marketed through Tandy. These portable sewing machines were intended for repairing sail canvas. Keeping presser foot / feed dog marks/indentations from you leather is going to be difficult. I think for what you want to sew, you would be disappointed with the performance / ability. If you are really dead set on that type of machine an alternative is the Reliable Barracuda and at about $500 US. You could then buy a servo motor and build a small table to sit it in.

I agree and disagree with UWE on the the Juki 1508 or its clones. I found that with my Juki 1541S which is down from the 1508 capability wise that if I was doing thick stuff it was great. When it came to thinner stuff I had to spend to much time in dumbing it down and then reverse the process to do thick stuff again. So to do thin stuff I bought a Juki 1181N, that machine covers off the thinner stuff and leaves the 1541S to do what it was good at. The 1508 will do your sheaths and more but on wallets I think it would be over kill.

I would agree with Uwe buying as local as possible and being able to test drive a machine is invaluable.

kgg

I was wondering about the Reliable Barracuda before. What do you think about them? 

[Wizcrafts]

1 minute ago, FellowLeathersmith said:

I was wondering about the Reliable Barracuda before. What do you think about them? 

It is a portable dual feed walking foot machine, much like the Sailrite. It is limited to #92 in the bobbin and #138 on top and 1/4 inch maximum thickness.

[FellowLeathersmith]

Just now, Wizcrafts said:

It is a portable dual feed walking foot machine, much like the Sailrite. It is limited to #92 in the bobbin and #138 on top and 1/4 inch maximum thickness.

I see I see! Thank you! What do you recommend if was looking of vintage Singer sewing machine? 

[Uwe]

The Singer 111W155 is the default choice for leatherwork. There’s a compact/stubby version called 151W which might be a good candidate for creating a luggable table-top setup. Quite capable for small projects like wallets, belts, perhaps even sheaths, I suppose. I have some in storage but I don’t have that bottom part shown in the picture for table-top operation. I’ve made similar table top setup out of plywood for testing full size machines.

 

Edited March 25, 2021 by Uwe

[MarlinDave]

Have you considered a bigger house?

[DonInReno]

1 hour ago, FellowLeathersmith said:

I see I see! Thank you! What do you recommend if was looking of vintage Singer sewing machine? 

The Singer 111w155 is such a good solid performer it became somewhat of a go-to design copied more or less by a number of other companies.  Parts are readily available and inexpensive.    Well used, but fully functional with a table and clutch motor these seem to be available in the $400-$500 range.   At this price don’t worry if you pass one up because another will take it’s place eventually.   A good deal if you don’t have one would be $300ish.   At $200 if it is in sewing condition it makes it worth my while to picking it up, do a quick clean and adjust and sell it for $400.   At $100 it’s worthwhile to buy sight unseen if need be, able to make a stitch or not, because chances are it won’t take a lot to get it working.  Every year I see one or two of these being given away in Northern California.

If you get the 111w156 it is the same machine with reverse and is is worth an additional $100.

The slightly newer version is the 211w155, but the values are about the same.

Essentially the same design as the 111w and 211w machines are models from Juki, Consew, Seiko, and others.

The important thing to look for is to insure it’s a triple feed walking foot.   This means there is a walking foot and the material is advanced by rearward movement of the needle.    Shop around for a functional name brand machine in the average price range and you can sew with it for a year or two and still be able to get all your money out of it - it’s essentially a free machine for as long as you want it!

There is no shortcut list of suitable machines - as you come across one you’ll need to google it to see if it’s a triple feed or not.

For tabletop use I had played with the idea of a compact 5:1 planetary gear reducer directly coupled to a compact servo motor and mounted directly to the head instead of the table.    As you can see in the photo it is quite compact, but I never made the mounting bracket, because the reducer and servo were well over 10 lbs and combined with the head it was just too heavy and awkward to be practical.   

[DonInReno]

I can list a dozen ways a full size machine is significantly better than a sailrite or one of the half dozen or so clones, but the marketing hype makes the design of the sailrite sound quite ideal and many people buy them despite all our warnings here.

In addition to what others have said about them, keep in mind that despite having a built in reducer pulley, they are not capable of slowly sewing thick material.   The “monster wheel” accessory to increase slow speed torque should be considered essential - and an additional $120 or so.   

For leather work the feed dog is way to coarse and has to be filed down or replaced.  Sailrite now has a smooth feed dog for $40 or so.

These little machines are also not needle feed, so despite having a walking foot it won’t perform as well as a full-size triple feed model.

[Uwe]

Whoa, that planetary gear setup is quite something!

The Singer 151W and also the Singer 108W are compact triple feed machines, weighing in at around 35lbs, compared to nearly 70lbs for the full size Singer 111W155. 

With a modular servo motor setup, you have a great deal of flexibility for arranging the components in a small table-top footprint.

I replaced the motor on my serger with such a setup to make a compact, portable table-top solution for sewing masks. Works like a charm.

 

A similar setup could be used for the compact Singer for a rather portable solution. The  motor below is a 1,500W motor, way more powerful than you really need for this Singer. Just for illustration purpose a few pictures of a mock-up with a Singer 151K3. Imagine a cutout in the plywood box to sink the machine into. Lift the machine out for two-part transport, each piece weighing 35lbs or less. 

 

Edited March 25, 2021 by Uwe

[sbrownn]

7 hours ago, kgg said:

 

I don't really think the Campbell Randall falls within the "doesn't take to much space" category of machines. It probably weights in at north of 150 lb.

kgg

It is certainly heavy but it doesn't take up much more space than a 441 clone or an Outlaw...especially if you just turn in over by hand.  The basic footprint of the machines is really dependent on the particular throat depth.  The Campbell Randall has a pretty narrow throat so it doesn't take up as much space as say a Cobra 4500; it probably has a smaller footprint than a lot of the 441 clones. 

[FellowLeathersmith]

54 minutes ago, Uwe said:

Whoa, that planetary gear setup is quite something!

The Singer 151W and also the Singer 108W are compact triple feed machines, weighing in at around 35lbs, compared to nearly 70lbs for the full size Singer 111W155. 

With a modular servo motor setup, you have a great deal of flexibility for arranging the components in a small table-top footprint.

I replaced the motor on my serger with such a setup to make a compact, portable table-top solution for sewing masks. Works like a charm.

 

A similar setup could be used for the compact Singer for a rather portable solution. The  motor below is a 1,500W motor, way more powerful than you really need for this Singer. Just for illustration purpose a few pictures of a mock-up with a Singer 151K3. Imagine a cutout in the plywood box to sink the machine into. Lift the machine out for two-part transport, each piece weighing 35lbs or less. 

 

Wow!!! That looks like a tank! Thank you for showing me. Thank you all for giving me some insight and suggestions! Much appreciated! 

[Hags]

I just got a pfaff 130. It needed a little work but with you tube I got it going pretty quick. I paid $300 for a very nice unit.  When I say it needed work  I mean I had to unstick the selector knob. I sewd though 8 layers of heavy canvas before I "fixed"it. Can't imagine it would have an issue with a wallet. I have a cobra class 3 for my holsters and gun belts though. I got this for wallets, canvas and leather aprons, and dang it,  it was just too cool to pass up! I'll post pics later. I mention this because you can find these around for not too much, they are German steel, and have a lot of info on  working on them. I hear of people getting these at yard sales but good luck with that.  Oh, and mine does have a hand crank so when the power is out  I can still sew!

[DonInReno]

I really like that little Singer - what a great idea for a table top machine.  

All those 1500 watt motors grabbed my attention - did you get a good deal buying a bunch of them?   

[FellowLeathersmith]

So was I wondering, does the Singer 111w153 sew through leather and what extent would it go? What kind of projects and you see doing with this sewing machine?

[DonInReno]

8 hours ago, FellowLeathersmith said:

So was I wondering, does the Singer 111w153 sew through leather and what extent would it go? What kind of projects and you see doing with this sewing machine?

It’s quite similar to the 111w155.  You might have a hard time telling which is which if you were sewing with a 153 and 155.
 

This is a screen shot from the Singer user manual.

Googling user manuals can be a quick way to learn about a machine - most have a description of the machine early in the manual.

For any singer models, Ismacs has a good (but not perfect) list and brief description.     http://ismacs.net/singer_sewing_machine_company/model-list/classes-100-199.html

 

 

[FellowLeathersmith]

So I came across on a Singer 151W1, I dont know much about them nor seen any videos on them. What do you think about this sewing machine?

[chrisash]

151W1

Industrial

One needle and belt-driven rotary sewing hook; lockstitch; space to right of needle 5 3/4". Automatic lubrication of hook race. Unison feed. For use in manufacture of corsets, leather palm gloves, and for stitching close to the edge of collars, cuffs and similar work.

135x1; 135x3 for silk thread.

[FellowLeathersmith]

1 minute ago, chrisash said:

151W1

Industrial

One needle and belt-driven rotary sewing hook; lockstitch; space to right of needle 5 3/4". Automatic lubrication of hook race. Unison feed. For use in manufacture of corsets, leather palm gloves, and for stitching close to the edge of collars, cuffs and similar work.

135x1; 135x3 for silk thread.

So pretty light stuff for this sewing machine?

[FellowLeathersmith]

So I found this Singer 111w153 only the head for $300 total. Is that a good buy or just look around?

[Uwe]

$300 for a Singer 111W153 head seems reasonable to me - if it‘s complete and serviceable. You’ll likely have to learn how to service the machine yourself anyways. It’s a good starter machine in that regard - they’re easy to work on. Common parts are generally still available for these machines and they’re cheap. 

Beware of sellers who have no clue about how to properly package a head for shipping. If you put a 70lbs head into a cardboard box with foam peanuts, you’ll all but guarantee that it’ll get destroyed during shipping. Find a local pick-up deal if at all possible.

Edited March 26, 2021 by Uwe

[chrisash]

On top of that you have the cost of a servo motor and table

[DonInReno]

The way shippers handle heavy packages is horrible - and that’s not only based on the number of damaged items, but the observations of our youngest when he worked part time loading delivery trucks.   Essentially plan on a boxed up sewing machine being dropped on the floor from waste height - that’s simply what’s accepted by all the major carriers now.  I won’t buy and ship from an inexperienced individual outside of eBay because there is an 80% chance of it being damaged.

If something is damaged in shipping and purchased through eBay they have a good system to make sure you get your money back.  
 

Having said that, beware of anyone who wants to shift the burden of shipping onto you - then if it’s damaged in transit it’s your problem.