Why do people say "handmade"?

[Tugadude]

25 minutes ago, Klara said:

And what if there's no stitching at all? Just a strap of leather (cut with a strap cutter), a point cut free-hand, the buckle attached with rivets, and that's it? No machine involved since the tannery, but does that make the belt more valuable than a machine-stitched one?

You just pretty much described all of the stuff put out by Mr. Lentz!  Are they "handmade"?  You betcha!

[Tugadude]

29 minutes ago, Klara said:

And what if there's no stitching at all? Just a strap of leather (cut with a strap cutter), a point cut free-hand, the buckle attached with rivets, and that's it? No machine involved since the tannery, but does that make the belt more valuable than a machine-stitched one?

To some people, yes.  Even if the quality isn't as good.  Some appreciate things that are made largely by hand.  I say largely, due to all of the factors we've discussed in this thread.  Most of us will use a machine at some point in our work, although most of my work, 99% of it in fact, is done with no power tools or machines (riveters, setters, etc.).  I'm a hobbyist and while I am capable of making large, complicated items, I don't feel the need to churn them out fast because I'm not putting food on my table with my work.

A grocery near me is beginning to sell "artisan soaps" and they display them in the main aisle near checkout.  The soaps smell good and they are relatively attractive.  But as far as soaps are concerned, they are just OK.  And they are probably 5X the price of mass-produced, commercial soaps.  And they are selling.  If they said 'Proctor & Gamble' on them, I wonder if the results would be the same?

[Spyros]

9 hours ago, Tugadude said:

You just pretty much described all of the stuff put out by Mr. Lentz!  Are they "handmade"?  You betcha!

To me this guy is a genius.  We can like or dislike his products, that's a personal preference, but from a business perspective he's totally nailed it.   He managed to create designs that minimise his labor cost while ensuring his customers still love them, and that's not an easy task at all.  Then he justifies the prices based on the quality of the materials, which is fair enough, he's selling the cowboy/nostalgic/local/handcrafted image really well, and then links it very strongly to his product.  Even his photography is on point.  And he does all that while being perfectly honest about his products and his processes.   I mean we know that with a die cutter and a rivet setter you can make a wallet like that in minutes, but the customer doesn't know this, and he doesn't need to, it's irrelevant.  What you see is what you actually get, and it is technically hand crafted.  And if you like it now you will like it more as it ages because it is good quality veg tan, just like Mr Lentz said.  No lies or exaggerations anywhere, everything is as advertised.

I tip my hat to this guy, great business model.

Edited June 16, 2021 by Spyros

[Klara]

Yes, hats off to Mr. Lentz. And to my colleague who does the same thing. Very good leather, turned very quickly into a long-lasting product. But I feel that the commercial success is mostly based on a misconception in the general public that working with leather is horribly difficult and expensive (hmmm, actually, Nigel Armitage's  book feeds that image very nicely...)

But for me such a very simple design is not "worth more" than one that involved the use of a few more machines, or where the embossing was done with a roller. When I buy something it is because I like it, and I'm not overly fussed about how it's been made. The idea of paying more for a quilt because it is hand-sewn seems ridiculous to me. Now, if one can sew a quilt by hand that can't be done by machine, that's different.

And on the selling side I've always felt that I can't charge extra because I insist on doing everything by hand. It's not my customer's problem that my "business" is too small for machinery...

Incidentally, last week I showed off my dog collars to friends, and they were impressed with the stitching. Not because it's particularly good - it isn't - but because they didn't know anything about saddle stitching. First they thought I had a really good, expensive sewing machine, then when I explained it's sewn by hand that it must have been very hard, because they didn't know about diamond awls, and then I maybe made a mistake explaining about pricking irons and stitching pony... If you don't know about leatherwork, it seems a black art. I have had for ages a horse harness with some stitching broken, until now I never even thought about repairing it myself...

[Spyros]

1 hour ago, Klara said:

Yes, hats off to Mr. Lentz. And to my colleague who does the same thing. Very good leather, turned very quickly into a long-lasting product. But I feel that the commercial success is mostly based on a misconception in the general public that working with leather is horribly difficult and expensive (hmmm, actually, Nigel Armitage's  book feeds that image very nicely...)

It can be.  If you want to follow the English tradition of fine leathercrafting, you have to skive pretty much everything that can be skived, it's basically a competition in thin-ness LOL

I've seen guys skiving zippers, no joke.  And then edge paint multiple coats on every edge, leaving hours to dry between coats, put a hot crease on anything that can be creased, buff anything that can be buffed, line anything that can be lined, and before you know it you've spent days on a wallet.  Which is great, and I absolutely love seeing it, I even love doing it when I'm in the mood, but then good luck finding someone to pay for days of labour in exchange for a wallet. 

Not a surprise that many of those guys find it makes a lot more sense to teach it rather than do it.

Edited June 16, 2021 by Spyros

[Tugadude]

Apparently there was some negativity detected in my post about Mr. Lentz.  This is all I said..."You just pretty much described all of the stuff put out by Mr. Lentz!  Are they "handmade"?  You betcha!"

I didn't intend to make any sort of statement, positive or negative about his work.  I merely pointed out the truth, that his work is exactly as described by Klara.  If you read something negative or critical into it, that's on you.

[Tugadude]

Some respect and have an affinity for handmade stuff, some don't.  That will always be the case.  Some will even pay a bit more for handmade or handcrafted product and that will always be the case.  Some do it to support and encourage the maker.  Some do it because they truly perceive the item as "better than".  

I am the sort that tries to support small businesses and will pay a little more to get something local as opposed to ordering off of Amazon.  Some think that's just stupid.  And I say let them think what they want, it isn't their money.

Regarding comments about Nigel Armitage's book, I disagree.  He is presenting the "traditional" methods and of course in order to do traditional leatherwork there is stuff to purchase and dues to pay.  

The book isn't the one he intended to write.  That book will come out eventually.  Here are Nigel's own words from a post on this forum...

"It is not yet the book I want to write, neither is it the book I have been asked to write.
I was asked to write what was, in essence, a craft-based project book but there are many like that already out there, so we came to a compromise.
There are of course projects and the techniques focus on the more modern tools rather than the traditional so pre-pricking of holes is the theme with very little awl work. I think trying to get over all the details of the traditional saddle stitch would take a book in itself.

The projects are in more detail than perhaps they expected, but hopefully, I have found the balance between what they wanted to hear against what I wanted to write.
I am by no stretch of the imagination a writer, I talk too much and go off-topic too often, it has been an education."

I owe a huge debt to Mr. Armitage and his videos.  They have helped countless people.  

[chuck123wapati]

18 hours ago, Klara said:

And what if there's no stitching at all? Just a strap of leather (cut with a strap cutter), a point cut free-hand, the buckle attached with rivets, and that's it? No machine involved since the tannery, but does that make the belt more valuable than a machine-stitched one?

nope not to me. Yes it can be called handmade But then it will only be worth whatever a customer is willing to pay for that strap of leather with rivets. When i buy handmade i tend to think of the time a person puts into creating that piece of themselves that goes out to the world to see. Mr Lentz has great products compared to mass produced stuff but i would consider him a success because he is a good business man not a necessarily a good craftsman a monkey or a machine could put his stuff together.

[chrisash]

But could they think of it, make it; and most importantly market it well enough, to sell it

in early 1900's a shoe making company sent a salesman to Africa who stayed there for a 6 month period and then cam home with no orders, he told his boss they wont buy shoes they all walk around bare footed

A few months latter the same company took a gamble and sent a second salesman to the same place, after a month had passed they got a telegram from Africa stating "Sent as many shoes as you can great market here and no competition"

[Klara]

1 hour ago, Tugadude said:

... He is presenting the "traditional" methods and of course in order to do traditional leatherwork there is stuff to purchase and dues to pay.    ...

Stuff to purchase, yes. "Dues to pay" only if you are still referring to the hundreds of dollars the reader of the book is supposed to invest in top-quality tools before having made the first cut or stitch. Because Armitage promises that there is no need for "apprenticeship" - you do exactly as he says and you make nice things from the start. No need to learn "proper" saddle stitching or how to cut free-hand...

And it works! I followed the instructions for the gusset-less bag, pre-pierced all the holes and put my pocket protector for dog treats together. Felt a bit like doing Lego...

I much prefer Jo's style (from JH Leather) - she makes it look so easy. But I'm almost sure that Jo formally trained as a saddler, i.e. spent years full-time learning how to cut straps, how to work with an awl, how to care for tools etc.

Back to Armitage's book: Imagine a person expresses an interest in leatherwork and gets the book for Christmas. They read the chapter on tools, go to a web shop and learn what all these absolutely essential tools cost in their top-quality version. Will they buy them - or will they think "Wow, leatherworking sure is expensive, now I know why leather things cost so much money." That's what I meant with my comment about reinforcing the misconception.

I would like the book much better if the chapter on tools were different. Like listing the tools in the order in which they are needed for the projects (and clearly saying so!) So the reader would only need to buy the things actually necessary for the finger protectors at first, and then add tools as he progresses through the book and the projects. 

Back to the actual topic: I buy handmade things - even expensive ones - when I like them more than industrially made stuff. Because they work better (like my friend's knives) or because they are prettier (my friend's knives as well, a felted shawl, a sewn scarf), or because I need something right now and the handmade thing is there and reasonably priced (a leather coin bag, various pottery). Basically I agree with whoever wrote this https://www.jlsleather.com/hand-made-well-made/ - well-made is more important than how many machines were involved in the process.