Patcher/cobbler machine

[arich]

Just starting to look into buying a patcher machine. I'd like to use this machine to sew leather patches on things like backpack pockets and shoes. I don't think I'd ever need to sew anything thicker than 6-8 oz with this machine.

I'm not ready to invest in something like a Cobra or a Cowboy but I'd like to avoid the Chinese patch machines.

I'd like it to use 138 thread (if possible) and to stay under $1000 -a used older machine is fine as long as parts are somewhat available.

What are some machines I should look for?

 

-Also a local guy is selling a Adler 30-7 machine for $1000 that's supposed to be in good working order, is this a machine I should look into?

 

Edited June 23, 2021 by arich

[Wizcrafts]

I have that same Adler 30-7, except mine is gray. It is a long arm large bobbin model with extra long needles (332LLG) allowing it to sew up to 3/8 inch. The needles are uncommon and tend to be expensive. Adler USA does sell them in boxes of 100 if you can't find a dealer who has any in stock. Assuming you can find them, the needles are/were made in sizes 18/110 through 24/180.

As for the thread sizes, I keep mine threaded with #92 bonded nylon. On rare occasions I load a bobbin with #138 and use the same size on the top. A full bobbin of #138 can sew about 5 suede lined rifle slings (bodies and tails). I used to pre-wind a bunch of bobbins when I had to sew a run of straps on an Adler 30-70, back in 2009 through 2012.

As for sewing patches, you can actually get by using #69 bonded nylon with a #18/110 needle. I keep #92 thread in my Adler patcher because I repair things too. I would not recommend using #138 thread to sew patches because you may destroy the embroidered edges. Even a #19 needle separates some soft woven edges. A #18 needle does less visual damage to the patches. That's why I recommend #69 thread. Also, you might be able to find a box of prewound black bobbins in #69 bonded nylon.

FYI: I also have a Singer 29k71 patcher that I only use with #69 thread and a #18 needle. Thus there isn't much reason for me to run that thread in the Adler.

[Constabulary]

You answered most of your thought by your self. Adler 30-7 is not Chinese made and in your price range - even better it is local. Adler parts are expensive but bobbins and shuttle hooks are the same as for the large hook Singer 29K (like 29K72) so they are available fairly cheap. Most important - test the maximum stitch length, ex factory it should be approx 5mm but used machines often have a shorter stitch length because of wear but thats not unusual.

Download a user manual and test the machine I´d say.

Edited June 24, 2021 by Constabulary

[arich]

On 6/23/2021 at 9:15 PM, Wizcrafts said:

I have that same Adler 30-7, except mine is gray. It is a long arm large bobbin model with extra long needles (332LLG) allowing it to sew up to 3/8 inch. The needles are uncommon and tend to be expensive. Adler USA does sell them in boxes of 100 if you can't find a dealer who has any in stock. Assuming you can find them, the needles are/were made in sizes 18/110 through 24/180.

As for the thread sizes, I keep mine threaded with #92 bonded nylon. On rare occasions I load a bobbin with #138 and use the same size on the top. A full bobbin of #138 can sew about 5 suede lined rifle slings (bodies and tails). I used to pre-wind a bunch of bobbins when I had to sew a run of straps on an Adler 30-70, back in 2009 through 2012.

As for sewing patches, you can actually get by using #69 bonded nylon with a #18/110 needle. I keep #92 thread in my Adler patcher because I repair things too. I would not recommend using #138 thread to sew patches because you may destroy the embroidered edges. Even a #19 needle separates some soft woven edges. A #18 needle does less visual damage to the patches. That's why I recommend #69 thread. Also, you might be able to find a box of prewound black bobbins in #69 bonded nylon.

FYI: I also have a Singer 29k71 patcher that I only use with #69 thread and a #18 needle. Thus there isn't much reason for me to run that thread in the Adler.

Thank you for your responses!
 

Where do you purchase your needles Wizcrafts? 
 

By “patches” I’m referring to less traditional patches -like the shoes below. This is a pair I added patches to a while back. I was able to turn the shoe inside out and stitched them on with my flatbed Consew. I’m looking to add these kind of patches to other shoes (that I won’t be able to maneuver or turn inside out) on my current machine. 

Do you feel the Adler 30-7 is suitable for this sort of project? Or would a Singer 29k (or some other machine else)  be a better bet?

 

On 6/24/2021 at 12:33 AM, Constabulary said:

You answered most of your thought by your self. Adler 30-7 is not Chinese made and in your price range - even better it is local. Adler parts are expensive but bobbins and shuttle hooks are the same as for the large hook Singer 29K (like 29K72) so they are available fairly cheap. Most important - test the maximum stitch length, ex factory it should be approx 5mm but used machines often have a shorter stitch length because of wear but thats not unusual.

Download a user manual and test the machine I´d say.

Constabulary is there anything else I should be on the lookout for when I go to try it out?

[Constabulary]

I`m not a shoe guy. Do you sew on the patches during the manufacturing process or later when the shoe is finished (f.i. as a customers option)? If during the manufacturing process then a flat bed machine or post bed machine would probably be the better choice.

Patchers are not the ideal machines for the manufacturing process. They are meant as repair machines. Of course patchers can do a thousand jobs that other machines can´t do but usually they are not involved in a manufacturing process of shoes. Check out some videos where people ares sewing shoe uppers. That may give you can idea what kind of sewing machines they are using.

Edited June 27, 2021 by Constabulary

[arich]

43 minutes ago, Constabulary said:

I`m not a shoe guy. Do you sew on the patches during the manufacturing process or later when the shoe is finished (f.i. as a customers option)? If during the manufacturing process then a flat bed machine or post bed machine would probably be the better choice.

Patchers are not the ideal machines for the manufacturing process. They are meant as repair machines. Of course patchers can do a thousand jobs that other machines can´t do but usually they are not involved in a manufacturing process of shoes. Check out some videos where people ares sewing shoe uppers. That may give you can idea what kind of sewing machines they are using.

Oh no the shoes were bought then I painted & added the leather pieces 

[RockyAussie]

A patching machine is about the only type of machine that can do this sort of operation but.......some feed better than others. They only feed from the top and stitching through the shoe where you have you will come across a stiff heel counter in there which may be very difficult to get through in a tidy way. Getting even looking stitches with these type of machines takes a lot a practice and concentration and I recommend that you get a heap of various leather scraps and do a LOT of practice before you start on any shoes.

Nice work there and I hope that you can master the technique required.

[Constabulary]

When sewing patches on existing shoes then yes, the patcher will be the only machine. I though you probably want to produce the shoes from scratch.

[jimi]

[Wizcrafts]

14 hours ago, arich said:

Do you feel the Adler 30-7 is suitable for this sort of project? Or would a Singer 29k (or some other machine else)  be a better bet?

Yes to both parts of your question. The Adler can sew heavier leather, but that doesn't appear to be an issue in this project. Your real decisions are:

1. Do I need a large bobbin or will a small bobbin machine do?
2. Do I want a new or a used machine?
3. If used, do I want to spend the money for a German made machine and its not so cheap replacement parts?
4. If no to #3, am I prepared to repair/rebuild a possibly worn out Singer 29 series patcher?
5. Do I want a manually treadled machine or one mounted on a power stand?

If you prefer to buy a new patcher, it won't be an Adler or Singer. It will be a Chinese clone of a Singer 29. Make sure you buy from a dealer who will service it and has parts if something goes bad and who will talk you through the growing pains.

If you go the used route, know that sometimes the foot driving cam is so worn down it may not sew longer than 9 or 10 stitches per inch. New, a Singer 29 should sew up to 5 to the inch, into about 6 or 7 ounces of shoe leather. If you find a really tight patcher that you can afford, buy it and run with it as l;ong as you can. When it wears out and loses stitch length and quality, rebuild it, or sell it and buy a newer old one (or a brand new clone).

I use my Adler for most patch projects. Occasionally, I use the Singer where the small nose profile is required. I wouldn't be without it in my line of work. Your use is defined though. You can use a large bobbin machine if you can find one you can afford. We have a member on LWN who rebuilds Adler patchers: @shoepatcher

[arich]

On 6/27/2021 at 11:23 AM, Wizcrafts said:

Yes to both parts of your question. The Adler can sew heavier leather, but that doesn't appear to be an issue in this project. Your real decisions are:

1. Do I need a large bobbin or will a small bobbin machine do?
2. Do I want a new or a used machine?
3. If used, do I want to spend the money for a German made machine and its not so cheap replacement parts?
4. If no to #3, am I prepared to repair/rebuild a possibly worn out Singer 29 series patcher?
5. Do I want a manually treadled machine or one mounted on a power stand?

If you prefer to buy a new patcher, it won't be an Adler or Singer. It will be a Chinese clone of a Singer 29. Make sure you buy from a dealer who will service it and has parts if something goes bad and who will talk you through the growing pains.

If you go the used route, know that sometimes the foot driving cam is so worn down it may not sew longer than 9 or 10 stitches per inch. New, a Singer 29 should sew up to 5 to the inch, into about 6 or 7 ounces of shoe leather. If you find a really tight patcher that you can afford, buy it and run with it as l;ong as you can. When it wears out and loses stitch length and quality, rebuild it, or sell it and buy a newer old one (or a brand new clone).

I use my Adler for most patch projects. Occasionally, I use the Singer where the small nose profile is required. I wouldn't be without it in my line of work. Your use is defined though. You can use a large bobbin machine if you can find one you can afford. We have a member on LWN who rebuilds Adler patchers: @shoepatcher

I finally made it out to look at the machine a few days ago. I brought my 138 thread and a bobbin and some leather to test it out. They had recently acquired the machine and weren’t very familiar with how to work it. I did my best to thread it (using a YouTube tutorial) and try it out but my bobbin was too big for the machine and they didn’t have an empty bobbin.
 

They had thread in the bobbin but they didn’t have thread at the top spool so I had to make do with my 138 thread in the top spool and their very thin thread in the bobbin. I tried to adjust the stitch length but didn’t have much luck, looks like the tension was off, not to mention I was using two different thread sizes. The stitching was messy but not tangled (see pic below) 

Now today they contacted me and said they got ahold of the cobbler they had purchased the machine from, the cobbler was able to teach them how to adjust the stitch length (over the phone I’m guessing). The stitch length looks good now (see pic) but they say the tension is off so I can’t see how the machine runs with thread in it.

If I purchase this machine I am planning to take it in to get serviced but I’m wondering if it’s worth the risk of purchasing the machine and the issue being something more than just the tension being off.
Any opinions on this?

 

[kgg]

40 minutes ago, arich said:

Any opinions on this?

I wouldn't consider buying the machine mainly as replacement parts are going to be expensive. I would look for something from a dealer either a new or refurbished machine. Either way they can help with the machine setup for your needs. To me this machine sounds like it was bought as a quick flip and/or has other hidden problems.

kgg

Edited July 18, 2021 by kgg
missing word

[chrisash]

If they had been using thin thread say #69 or lighter then the chances are they also only had a thin needle in the machine and there is no way the top thread could pull up the bottom thread through the small hole

Could you buy it on the terms that if your mechanic finds something seriously wrong you can return it for a full refund

Me I would take the chance as it looks like operator error and you did not report any strange noises etc

[DonInReno]

Any machine that can’t sew well is only worth half the price of one that will - even if it’s operator error.   Unless you enjoy troubleshooting and are okay with the possibility it may never sew correctly, this is not a good purchase.   Paying someone who may not be familiar with patchers to throw parts at it in hopes of getting it to sew perfectly only has a 50/50 chance of success.   Some of my best deals have been repair shops that have botched something on an industrial machine they aren’t familiar with.

[JollyDodgerCanvas]

I bought a "cheap" Chinese leather patcher years ago, I spent a few hundred from an Ebay seller who included a large bundle of spare parts which I haven't needed yet. I didn't expect much from the machine as it's small and hand cranked, but it did the job I needed and I ended up motorizing it and mounting it to a table. The stitch quality is OK, but for repair work on nylon backpacks and bags it's been fine for me, certainly not a production machine, or for a commercial repair shop, but for my limited uses it's been great. I run it with V92 bonded polyester thread and a #20 needle, sews well enough. I've seen them advertised on Amazon now and Ebay for half what I spent.

[shoepatcher]

On 6/27/2021 at 5:39 AM, jimi said:

JIMI   7 PATCHERS and a mountain of boots!!!

[jimi]

10 hours ago, shoepatcher said:

JIMI   7 PATCHERS and a mountain of boots!!!

 Yes Glenn, it is meant to get you in the mood for sewing patches onto boots! Jajaja....

[shoepatcher]

yep

[Wizcrafts]

22 hours ago, shoepatcher said:

JIMI   7 PATCHERS and a mountain of boots!!!

This photo was take during WW1 and was in the collection of British Field Marshall Earl Haig.