Rush Job

[PastorBob]

Well, I got an order for one of my holsters.  i thought I had it made and sitting in inventory.  Told the customer I would ship out next day.  With me having a full-time job and doing leather as I can, next day orders only happen when i have inventory.  Guess what, didn't have it in inventory.  So last night around 5pm, I started on the avenger holster.  At 7:30, I had it complete (up to wet mold).  I cut it, dyed it, glued it, stitched it, burnished it (using dye as burnishing agent as someone on here suggested) and wet molded.  That was the first time I have done one that quickly.  For a lot of it, the dye was still damp.  It looks okay, but did I rush through it and is there the possibility of future quality issues by doing this so quickly?  Thanks for your candid feedback.

[Samalan]

1 hour ago, PastorBob said:

Well, I got an order for one of my holsters.  i thought I had it made and sitting in inventory.  Told the customer I would ship out next day.  With me having a full-time job and doing leather as I can, next day orders only happen when i have inventory.  Guess what, didn't have it in inventory.  So last night around 5pm, I started on the avenger holster.  At 7:30, I had it complete (up to wet mold).  I cut it, dyed it, glued it, stitched it, burnished it (using dye as burnishing agent as someone on here suggested) and wet molded.  That was the first time I have done one that quickly.  For a lot of it, the dye was still damp.  It looks okay, but did I rush through it and is there the possibility of future quality issues by doing this so quickly?  Thanks for your candid feedback.

Jesus would never compromise or rush it leads to bad practices good leather work takes time .IMHO. but you already know that keep doing the best you can do my friend and God bless.

[Tugadude]

An honest mistake is just that.  I would have contacted the buyer as soon as you were aware that the holster wasn't in inventory.  Let them decide, perhaps.  Get it right away and possibly have issues or wait at least one additional day so that you could make sure it was up to snuff.  Customers like honesty.  Customer appreciate having options.

The other thing is a lot of work comes from repeat customers and if you disappoint one, you potentially ruin your chances for repeat business and also from word-of-mouth recommendations.

[fredk]

   The only issue I can foresee is the leather not drying out properly causing some mold growth

[PastorBob]

20 minutes ago, fredk said:

   The only issue I can foresee is the leather not drying out properly causing some mold growth

When I say it was rushed, it was just not letting the dye dry for several hours to a day.  I did not short cut any of the other processes. I allowed ample time for Barge's to setup before tacking pieces together and did my normal saddle stitch by hand.  It is home drying now (over night) from the wet mold.  When I get home from my day job, i will apply water proofing compound and rub in before shipment.  Just wasn't sure of the dye dry time being shortened before gluing and stitching.  There were no other compromises.

 

1 hour ago, Tugadude said:

An honest mistake is just that.  I would have contacted the buyer as soon as you were aware that the holster wasn't in inventory.  Let them decide, perhaps.  Get it right away and possibly have issues or wait at least one additional day so that you could make sure it was up to snuff.  Customers like honesty.  Customer appreciate having options.

The other thing is a lot of work comes from repeat customers and if you disappoint one, you potentially ruin your chances for repeat business and also from word-of-mouth recommendations.

Great point Tugadude.  Like stated above, my main concern was with the dye.  All other steps were done as usual.

 

1 hour ago, Samalan said:

Jesus would never compromise or rush it leads to bad practices good leather work takes time .IMHO. but you already know that keep doing the best you can do my friend and God bless.

Not even when his buddy Lazarus was sick.  Agreed.  

[Lobo]

I always wanted a minimum of 12 hours between steps in the production process, particularly anything that uses liquid in the process (dyeing, oiling, sealing, finishing, wet-forming). Of course, that is more difficult to do when making one item at a time from beginning to end. I liked working with batches of about 10 pieces (holsters, pouches, etc) doing each step in the process 10 times, then moving on to the next step (or next batch) during the next working session.

The way it usually worked out was 5 work sessions (morning or afternoon typically) to complete each batch, then 2 days (weekend usually) for final finishes to cure, then get all the orders packaged for delivery to the customers. Each batch was composed of about 10 orders based upon like features (dye colors, lined vs. unlined, plain vs. tooled, etc). An order for several matching pieces (holster, mag pouch, belt, etc) would be done at the same time so that dye results could be monitored in the different hides and leather weights used.

Usually 3 batches per week moving through the work stations. Occasionally I would have an order for multiple items going to one customer (retailer, military or LE agency) so I would add that as a fourth batch for the week. Almost always worked out to 30-50 pieces per week in order to keep up with promised delivery dates.

I admit to "fudging" a bit on my promised production times. If you promise completion in "about 6 weeks" and get the order out the door in 4 or 5 weeks all is good; but if you take 43 days you can have a customer on your back and screaming in your ear!

The only times I had anything on hand for immediate sale was when mistakes were made. Customer ordered left-hand, a right-hand was produced. Customer ordered smooth leather lining, suede lining installed (or no lining). Sometimes there will be a cosmetic issue, a bit of scar tissue that was not readily apparent until after dyeing, then showed up as an ugly mark. Lots of ways to make mistakes, especially when you are in "cruise control mode" at the bench. Those items were listed on the website with a description of any issues, priced at a discount (small or large), and usually went away quickly. Of course, major problems became chew toys for the dogs.

For about a year I kept track of the actual time spent on production work, my own and my assistant's. Working in the ways described we were turning out one completed product for every 47 minutes of shop time. There is simply no way to do this work one unit at a time and maintain that level of production. Just the waiting periods after dyeing, sealing, final finish, etc, make it difficult to complete a single piece from beginning to end in less than 2 or 3 days. Sure, someone will come along and argue that point and tell us how they do it all the time in a single day, and that is fine with me. I'm just describing what I found to work in my shop.

Setting up a stitching machine to sew with white, brown, or black thread takes 20 minutes or so. Why do it constantly for each order when you can do it once and stitch a dozen pieces before any further adjustments? Same with the dye stations, set up and clean up when changing from black to another color selection, do it one time and proceed with a batch of items.

Of course, we can play like the big companies, purchasing pre-dyed hides, running multiple stitching machines for each thread color, and so on. That would be the ultimate goal for those making the transition from a small production shop to a manufacturing shop, and the savings in time and labor would be great.

Meanwhile, for the smaller production shop the guy responsible for keeping it going is spending hours per day at the benches, hours per day dealing with customers, and additional time monitoring inventory of materials and supplies, dealing with suppliers, working on advertising, taking care of the accounting, paying the bills and running deposits to the bank. Usually done all alone by one person, and it can become a 7-day per week contest to keep everything moving along.

[PastorBob]

54 minutes ago, Lobo said:

I always wanted a minimum of 12 hours between steps in the production process, particularly anything that uses liquid in the process (dyeing, oiling, sealing, finishing, wet-forming). Of course, that is more difficult to do when making one item at a time from beginning to end. I liked working with batches of about 10 pieces (holsters, pouches, etc) doing each step in the process 10 times, then moving on to the next step (or next batch) during the next working session.

 

For about a year I kept track of the actual time spent on production work, my own and my assistant's. Working in the ways described we were turning out one completed product for every 47 minutes of shop time. There is simply no way to do this work one unit at a time and maintain that level of production. Just the waiting periods after dyeing, sealing, final finish, etc, make it difficult to complete a single piece from beginning to end in less than 2 or 3 days. Sure, someone will come along and argue that point and tell us how they do it all the time in a single day, and that is fine with me. I'm just describing what I found to work in my shop.

 

Setting up a stitching machine to sew with white, brown, or black thread takes 20 minutes or so. Why do it constantly for each order when you can do it once and stitch a dozen pieces before any further adjustments? Same with the dye stations, set up and clean up when changing from black to another color selection, do it one time and proceed with a batch of items.

 

Meanwhile, for the smaller production shop the guy responsible for keeping it going is spending hours per day at the benches, hours per day dealing with customers, and additional time monitoring inventory of materials and supplies, dealing with suppliers, working on advertising, taking care of the accounting, paying the bills and running deposits to the bank. Usually done all alone by one person, and it can become a 7-day per week contest to keep everything moving along.

I too, normally leave several hours between steps.  My customer orders are nowhere near your volume.  Maybe 1 every week or so.  I am also the only one in my shop.  Occasionally I will get my wife to mail something for me, but she has a full time job as well.  I also hand stitch every item.  I haven't been able to justify a new machine, nor do I have enough knowledge to buy a good used machine.  Heck, I have never used a sewing machine so not sure I would know what to do with it if I did get one.  Thanks for the insights.  I almost didn't even ask the question to begin with, but if we can't be honest with ourselves and our fellows, what are we doing?  Hopefully someone will be able to glean something from this...I know I did.  Thanks!! 

[TexasJack]

A short piece of advice for anyone stuck in this kind of situation.  This advice was given to me years ago and I've found it to be true.

A customer will nearly always accept a piece that is late, but will never accept a piece that is wrong or incomplete.

If you're in a situation where you don't have time to finish, contact the customer, apologize profusely, and COMMUNICATE that you have to take some time to make sure it's right.

One of the worst problems I've had with vendors has been an unwillingness to man-up and tell the truth.  If something is late, they will pretend not to get emails, or they won't answer the phone, or they'll have someone lie and say that they're unavailable.  I even had to chew out a dear friend who made a knife that I wanted for a neighbor.  He was embarrassed and kept ducking me.  I told him in the future just talk to me; give me a new estimated date.  I may be unhappy, but I won't be angry.

 

[dikman]

One thing I have found is when I dye something the leather becomes very malleable and can be wet-formed at that stage. When it dries it becomes quite hard and stiff, with no need to form any further. As long as you let it dry (maybe force dry in a slightly warm oven) I don't see why there should be any problems.

[Lobo]

Had another thought about this post and looked up another post I made a few years ago about a drying cabinet to help speed up production times. I remember using this on occasion to turn out a holster order in a day, using it for setting the dyes and finish coats, and complete drying after forming/boning. Easy to make, inexpensive, efficient.

 

[PastorBob]

the holster did get to dry overnight before shipping.  It looked great.  After I mailed it, guess what my wife found in my inventory bin? You guessed it, the holster I thought I had in inventory.  All is good. Off to the next build.  Thanks for all your insight and advice.  I do like the drying cabinet idea to speed up the process.  I am using Pro dye so it seems to dry pretty quickly compared to Eco-flo products.

[Dwight]

I don't know if it was Lobo . . . but I do recall a "drying box" thread we had on here some couple years or so ago.

I built one and think I posted pictures on here . . . still have it . . . use it occasionally.

Nothing more than a tall box with regular incandescent light bulbs at the bottom . . . thermostat in the door up at holster level . . . and I really like it.

Using it adds a level of hardness to my dyed holsters that I don't get from my regular drying process hanging them in the shop.  

And it only takes a couple hours and they are DRY . . .  dry.

May God bless,

Dwight

PS:  I don't use it on belts . . . holsters, knife sheaths, etc.  ONLY

[Double Daddy]

I will echo what Lobo has to say about a drying cabinet...something about setting collagens in the wet veg-tan leather hardens it as it dries.  I followed his advice (as well as that of Dwight's and a few others) some years back from another thread...copied/adapted another fella's somewhat more complex design to fit my taste/needs at the time (to each their own, eh!)...came up with this (last post on page 3 of this VERY INFORMATIVE thread):

 

Edited August 19, 2021 by Double Daddy

[Lobo]

Perhaps I should clarify my use of the drying cabinet, based upon some of the follow-up discussion.

During the wet-forming process I used another heating process to maintain 125-130F with a timer. Working from thoroughly dampened for initial forming, then 15 minutes in the heat, then detail forming, then 15 minutes in the heat, then boning. After boning the piece went into the hot box, usually 3 to 4 hours. The piece was then ready for edge work (sanding, beveling, burnishing) followed by sealing and finishing.

The "hot box" maintained 104-109F and worked very well for setting and curing dyes, sealer, and finish applications. Each piece could remain in the hot box for hours; I remember a couple of times when I left a batch in overnight because I forgot to turn it off before leaving the shop. No problems at all.

The temps maintained in the hot box were not (in my opinion) optimal for achieving the collagen effects, which require a higher level of heat.

The family who purchased my business have transitioned to a large food dehydrator, capable of maintaining the desired temperatures with plenty of air flow to evacuate evaporating moisture. I really like the dehydrator for these uses, and I wish I had known about them years earlier!

[jrdunn]

On 8/19/2021 at 5:05 AM, Lobo said:

Had another thought about this post and looked up another post I made a few years ago about a drying cabinet to help speed up production times. I remember using this on occasion to turn out a holster order in a day, using it for setting the dyes and finish coats, and complete drying after forming/boning. Easy to make, inexpensive, efficient.

 

Thanks for posting that!  I think I'll make one.

[fredk]

  I might make one, if I could find somewhere to put it. At the moment I just use a portable blow heater, on low or cold, to dry anything speedily

A bit off-topic - I used to use a similar arrangement in an old metal sports locker for drying my photographic films after processing. Mine was very basic; a few low power light bulbs fitted at the bottom,. . . .  uh, that was it, cos the top and bottom of the door and sides already had vent slots and inside near the top was a bar for hanging kit. I could dry 10 or 12 films in about 20 - 30 minutes. Long enough to get a cuppa, before the printing session.

PS. For UK readers its going to be hard to make one of these drying cabinets soon. From September 1st it'll be illegal for anyone to sell incandescent and halogen light bulbs in the UK. These are the types you need for the heat. I've stocked up  

[billybopp]

7 hours ago, fredk said:

  I might make one, if I could find somewhere to put it. At the moment I just use a portable blow heater, on low or cold, to dry anything speedily

A bit off-topic - I used to use a similar arrangement in an old metal sports locker for drying my photographic films after processing. Mine was very basic; a few low power light bulbs fitted at the bottom,. . . .  uh, that was it, cos the top and bottom of the door and sides already had vent slots and inside near the top was a bar for hanging kit. I could dry 10 or 12 films in about 20 - 30 minutes. Long enough to get a cuppa, before the printing session.

PS. For UK readers its going to be hard to make one of these drying cabinets soon. From September 1st it'll be illegal for anyone to sell incandescent and halogen light bulbs in the UK. These are the types you need for the heat. I've stocked up  

If you can't get incandescent lamps, they also make light-bulb-base heater elements that are about equivalent to a 100W incandescent lamp.

Also, if you're hurting for space, there's no reason the cabinet couldn't be made collapsible to fold down to just a few inches.  Maybe even wall mount it.

- Bill

[fredk]

17 minutes ago, billybopp said:

If you can't get incandescent lamps, they also make light-bulb-base heater elements that are about equivalent to a 100W incandescent lamp.

Thems has been banned for about a dozen years now. We used to use them in our egg hatchery but had to change to an oil-burning-blow-heater contraption

Collapsible, mmm maybe, wall mount, no place