Clicker Press

[stsears]

I just got myself a United Shoe Mfg Company Clicker Press that has been converted over to run off of air, "Pneumatic". Its don't look like much but I get it running and adjusted the stroke dept a little and it seems OK I am a "Mom  Pop " little shop but this thing should save my hands a lot of pain and suffering but "Clicking" the parts out rather than cutting them by hand. I'm building myself a new shop but I'm afraid to put the press in there since I don't know the weight. I guess I'll just leave it in the garage on concrete. 

[Handstitched]

@stsears I also have a USM press, a 20 ton hytronic press. They weigh no more than two ton . Mine is sitting on a wood  pallet, as this made it easier to move into place using a pallet trolley, I managed with 1 ton pallet trolley....with help  . No room in my workshop for a forklift. 

I'd be curious to know a bit more about these running on air, as you would need power to operate the cutting depth adjustment ? I'd be guessing that a pneumatic conversion would  be extensive...and expensive.  Mine is a 3phase, haven't used  it since I bought it many years ago as theres no 3ph power anywhere ,not even in my street,  and single to 3ph. conversion isn't an option either. It was cheap. Original new price was $8500 au, but I bought it for $500 au. 

 The only option left is to buy a whopping great 3ph generator.  I have the cutting dies, but no power. 

HS

Edited September 7, 2021 by Handstitched

[mrwatch]

3 hours ago, Handstitched said:

@stsears I also have a USM press, a 20 ton hytronic press. They weigh no more than two ton . Mine is sitting on a wood  pallet, as this made it easier to move into place using a pallet trolley, I managed with 1 ton pallet trolley....with help  . No room in my workshop for a forklift. 

I'd be curious to know a bit more about these running on air, as you would need power to operate the cutting depth adjustment ? I'd be guessing that a pneumatic conversion would  be extensive...and expensive.  Mine is a 3phase, haven't used  it since I bought it many years ago as theres no 3ph power anywhere ,not even in my street,  and single to 3ph. conversion isn't an option either. It was cheap. Original new price was $8500 au, but I bought it for $500 au. 

 The only option left is to buy a whopping great 3ph generator.  I have the cutting dies, but no power. 

HS

Here in the states i knew a bicycle shop that had a single phase to a 3 stage converter. When it shut down it went bang! Bang! Here 3 phase is 440 volts AC.  Maybe check industrial surplus dealers for a used one or a old time electrical shop that may have a used one? I do not know what your country has for A.C. power or if you will need larger service or sub breaker. a  whopping great 3ph generator. sounds like something industrial on a trailer. 

[Matt S]

4 hours ago, Handstitched said:

@stsearsMine is a 3phase, haven't used  it since I bought it many years ago as theres no 3ph power anywhere ,not even in my street,  and single to 3ph. conversion isn't an option either. It was cheap. Original new price was $8500 au, but I bought it for $500 au. 

 The only option left is to buy a whopping great 3ph generator.

Creating ersatz 3-phase from a 1-phase supply is a fairly common problem to solve in small and hobby workshops. There's a number of approaches all with various advantages and disadvantages but none of them are rocket surgery. Simplest is to buy a professional static converter. I built one for my splitter as the cost of replacing all 4 motors, or installing 4x VFDs, was quite high. It works but due to some foibles of the machine I'll be upgrading to rotary soon.

Out of interest, why is conversion to 1ph not an option?

[ljk]

In the 90s  clickers were cheap and I bought three. A Schwabe  model D,  a Fipi 20 and a USMC model C. Two where 220 3 phase. The conversion to single phase I did myself   the  Schwabe  was easy go to the library, talk to friends. straightforward Now comes the Fipi 20, this machine made in Europe had a different wiring specs. and color.  With sweat and chest pains I got it done.  All three still in service today.   Service availability is miserable you have to learn to do everything, thanks for the internet.  Good luck.

[Handstitched]

@Matt S & @mrwatch Thanks for that.

I feel like I've just hijacked the thread/  OP....so my apologies to @stsears  

The voltage here in Oz is 240 volts, house hold power, and 3 phase is 400-415v 

My workshop, which is only a short distance away, the  power is coming out of our house( my Mothers sewing room to be precise) with a loooong  modified 30mtr  H/D extension power cord  , which is 240v 10 amp,  the converters are 15amp.  All of the power coming into the house from the street is single phase, 10 amp*.

HS 

 

(*I'm in the regional area of Western Australia,  a bit ' ye olde ' in places, and while technology is 21st century, phone, internet etc.  ....the power infrastructure is not. It hasn't changed in the nearly  40 years we've had the property.  ) 

 

Edited September 8, 2021 by Handstitched

[mrwatch]

New home construction in my area of the states and rentals requires 100 amp minimum and some go up too 300 amp service. Some are big on central heat and air and entertainment. copper wire prices are high. 

(*I'm in the regional area of Western Australia), I read that in some of the  Ozze homes are so remote that they have one wire to it and a earth return ground. 10 Amp service seems small? 

[Handstitched]

Yep, thats what we're given.

I've been trying to find an image of a pneumatic clicker press, not much luck. Mostly out of curiosity. The air compressor would have to be massive?  

HS

[Matt S]

5 hours ago, Handstitched said:

The voltage here in Oz is 240 volts, house hold power, and 3 phase is 400-415v 

My workshop, which is only a short distance away, the  power is coming out of our house( my Mothers sewing room to be precise) with a loooong  modified 30mtr  H/D extension power cord  , which is 240v 10 amp,  the converters are 15amp.  All of the power coming into the house from the street is single phase, 10 amp*.

HS 

(*I'm in the regional area of Western Australia,  a bit ' ye olde ' in places, and while technology is 21st century, phone, internet etc.  ....the power infrastructure is not. It hasn't changed in the nearly  40 years we've had the property.  ) 

Bloody hell, our 110-year-old house has a 100-amp 3-phase supply! (Sadly electrical renovations have reduced the consumer side to single-phase again so it was cheaper to build a phase splitter for my meagre needs than get the other 2 phases reconnected).

My (limited) understanding is that the 415/440 number quoted for 3ph supplies is the peak measurement across two phases (rather than phase to neutral). As they're all 120 degrees out of phase to each other you're getting the full 240v from one phase plus a fraction of the negative swing of the other phase. Since they're sinusoidal IIRC you multiply by 2^0.5 which would give 240+(240*1.4)=415ish. Most 3ph motors are reconfigurable between star and delta (star also known as Y or wye configuration), and most under 3KW 240v rather than 415v coils. That's part of how I was able to get my splitter running on 240v 1ph -- reconfigured the motors to star, put the control transformer onto a separate supply, and built a simple Steinmetz circuit across the biggest motor and supplied 240v across one of the windings. Big motor start capacitor from the first phase to the second phase via a time-delay relay (only in-circuit for a few seconds on start-up) and a run capacitor permanently in place. The run capacitor's approximate value I calculated based on the expected load and adjusted through trial-and-error for best average performance. I get about a 10% phase-to-phase voltage differential (measured phase-to-neutral) when running light, which is acceptable, but it bogs down on heavy loads and trips internal overloads. The motors aren't quite as balanced as I'd like and it's hard work on the biggest motor I'm using as part of the phase balancing but it does work. Thus wanting to build a rotary converter, which would have a wider range of operation and take the hard work off the hard-to-replace motors on the splitter.

There are other ways of doing it, some people use 240-415v transformers to get 415v 1ph and then generate the two pseudo-phases from that if their equipment expects to see 415v phase-to-neutral. Some VFDs can do 240-to-415 too, though with a VFD you have to connect it directly to the pump motor and make other arrangements for powering the control transformer.

I wonder if your converters "need" 15 amps, rather than "can cope with"? What's the tally plate on your clicker say? My splitter draws 1.5KW total, which translates to under 7A. Over 20A on startup (through a 13A fuse and 20A breaker), but big motors do that. Not a problem for very short periods, if you've got the right breakers installed.

This is a popular make of phase converter in the UK. They do both rotary and static. Commonly used in hobby workshops and some industrial places that don't have 3ph laid on. https://transwave.co.uk/

[stsears]

I retired from Toyota Maintenance and have access to a lot of Pneumatic Valves and controls and switching it over from 3 phase to single phase can be expensive. I have been running the press for the past 3 plus years off of a 6hp 6 1/2CFM compressor with no problems. I'm Sure I have lost some of the power but I never cut anything heavier than 9oz leather. I think I had a total of about $250 in the whole conversion and most of that cost was a cylinder.