Consew 206RB-5 or Juki LU1508N

[Yogeri]

Opinions please… after struggling with making wallets, small backpacks, totes and crossbody type bags with everything from veg tan to softer oil/chrome tan on my 31-17, I think I need to up my game with a compound feed machine. Something that can handle some changes in thickness along a seam. I’m almost set on a new Consew 206RB-5, but locally for a few hundred less I can buy a used Juki LU 1508N. Which one would you choose? Sewing 207 polyester would be a nice option, could the Juki LU1508N (wish it was an ‘NH’) do that? Would a used/very good condition Juki be a superior machine to the new Consew, quality-wise? Around 1500 bucks is my budget, or as much as my partner in crime (aka wife) will let me spend on my new hobby…
 

Thank you in advance for your limitless insight!

Joe

[kgg]

For the wallets a flatbed is probably your best bet but another option maybe cylinder bed machine with a flatbed attachment. The Juki line of machines are excellent machines and are typically what the clones are copied after. The test would be take some of what you what to sew with the thread you are planning on using and test drive both machines. See which one works best for your needs / wants.

Be aware buying secondhand like most things is always a gamble and more for the person willing to do their own repairs. If you are not someone who is willing to do some repairs buy new.  If the Juki 1508 is in good to excellent "working" condition, that has not been used in a factory setting and will do what you what / need it would be my preference. I have a Juki 1541S and a 1181N. For light stuff the walking foot 1181N does a nice job where as to do the same job on light stuff with the 1541S it needs to be dumbed down. The 1508 I would imagine would be more severe then the 1541S. As far as quality / accessories / replacement parts goes Juki I think far exceeds most others. Remember no one machine can do everything.

Buy once, Cry once

kgg

[Yogeri]

Kgg, I thank you for your detailed reply. From my limited experience with industrial/leather sewing machines I sort of want the Juki 1508 for the quality of the tool. But, because it was used in an upholstery shop AND it’s not officially rated for thread heavier than 138, I’m mostly leaning toward a new Consew 206. I’m very mechanically inclined, have become quite familiar with tuning and changing parts in my Singer 31-17 (which I bought as a head only, now it rests in a sweet vintage table  I rehabilitated, complete with a new servo) and my basket case Singer 151W2 that with a new hook and modified to fit feet still isn’t up to the tasks that I ungratefully asked of it, I’m not deterred by a used machine. I’m just not certain the Juki in this case is going to be the best decision. I may take your advice and see if the Juki 1508 can do what want before making what I consider a long term investment. A decent cylinder arm with reverse is unfortunately out of my budget at this time. I’ve made some pretty good things on my 31-17, and a walking foot flat bed will undoubtedly expand what I can create. I like these kinds of problems in my life. Thanks again for your thoughts, I really appreciate it!

[kgg]

8 hours ago, Yogeri said:

But, because it was used in an upholstery shop AND it’s not officially rated for thread heavier than 138, I’m mostly leaning toward a new Consew 206.

Since the machine was used in a shop one has to wonder why they are selling it so I agree it is probably a wiser decision to but the new Consew.

[Tejas]

I've sewed with both and much prefer the Juki. The Juki is a more modern machine and is still made in Japan. That model Consew was made in China, but the quality of the Consew I used seemed OK.

A big difference for me was the difference between a top-load and a bottom-load bobbin machine.

I've been writing an industrial sewing machine self-tutorial, and copied below is that section.

Top-load versus Bottom-load Bobbin Machine

Vertical Axis (aka: top-load or drop-in) bobbin machines are more likely to jam than Horizontal Axis (aka: bottom-load) bobbin machines. Sewers seem to prefer the type of machine they learned on.

Advantages and disadvantages of top-load versus bottom-load seem to be:

Top-load:

•  Advantages

1. Can see how much thread is left on the bobbin without removing the bobbin
2. Can see and change bobbin without tilting back machine

• Disadvantages:

1. Must hold thread when stating sewing to avoid jams
2. Must remove fabric to change bobbin

Bottom-load:

• Advantages:

1. More tolerant to lack of holding thread when starting sewing, which means that bobbin-wrap jams are less likely
2. Can change bobbin and resume sewing without removing fabric, especially useful when binding

• Disadvantages:

1. Cannot easily see how much thread is left on the bobbin
2. Must learn to load bobbin by feel or tilt machine back to see and load

• Other:

1. Uses a bobbin case, which might be an advantage if bobbin tension is changed frequently and have separate bobbin cases set for different tensions.

Apologies for the formatting. Copy and past didn't work very well.

[Yogeri]

Thanks Tejas, I appreciate the tutorial. I’m only familiar with bottom loading bobbins, and wonder if there are other advantages to top load as well? Do they generally offer more capacity? Allow thicker bottom thread? Stitch better with varying thicknesses along a seam (like going over seams whilst seaming)? Or are both types of bobbin orientations pretty much the same in basic functionality, aside from the differences stated so clearly above? 
 

I’m convinced the Juki is a better machine, I just wish the ‘N’ could handle #207 polyester like the Consew. My 31-17 maxes out with 138 top/92 bottom, and will only sew up to around 1/4” of firm tempered leather, I want to be able do more than that! 
 

thanks for helping, I really appreciate it! 

[kgg]

21 minutes ago, Yogeri said:

I’m convinced the Juki is a better machine, I just wish the ‘N’ could handle #207 polyester like the Consew.

I have looked at the Consew website (Consew.com) and can not find any information there that would suggest the RB5 is factory rated for V207 for the top thread and in the bobbin. I also couldn't find what the max needle size the machine is factory rated for.

The Juki's rate their machines at V138 like for the 1541S for the top and bobbin thread but if you notice that the max factory rated needle they can handle is a size 24 needle which can handle V207. I think they allow the extra sized needle to allow V138 to work properly in thick heavy materials. So I think but have not tried it myself that the Juki could probably handle V207 thread with softer materials in both the top and bobbin. Maybe someone else can confirm this.

The funny thing is my Juki 1181N has max factory rated needle size of #23 needle which is good for V138 but the machine itself is factory rated for V92 yet came out of the unopened box with V138 threaded in the top and bobbin.

The bottom line is thread capacity can be confusing and I think mainly depends on what / how thick you want to sew.

kgg

[Ferg]

I have the Consew and love it. Mine was made in Japan, didn't order it that way, just happened.

I agree the original machines in most cases are probably superior in function and build. I have no idea about the used Juki's as 

their past history of use would determine the viability.

The Consew RB5 will handle up to and including 130 thread top and bottom with up to number 24 needles which is fine for my use.

You can sew 3/8" leather all day if it isn't real hard. I tend to use #92 or #130 size in mine. I seldom use smaller thread size since it requires considerable readjustment of tension.

Hope my info helps.

Ferg

 

[Yogeri]

Thanks to everyone who shared knowledge! I actually decided to get a Cowboy CB341… so I’m sure I’ll probably ask a whole new batch of questions when it arrives as I learn to master it! 

[RockyAussie]

20 hours ago, Yogeri said:

Thanks to everyone who shared knowledge! I actually decided to get a Cowboy CB341… so I’m sure I’ll probably ask a whole new batch of questions when it arrives as I learn to master it! 

Good choice for the jobs you want to do but make sure you have a full open end table and not just the U shape cut out version. Doing tote bags often require the open end to get a full swing around stitch. I will probably get a video up showing this issue sometime next week I think. Video's done just gotta edit the darn thing.

[CowboyBob]

I have 2 customers that are using the 206RB-5 (china) made machine using #277 on top for top stitching on car seats.

[RockyAussie]

Here is a link to the video I have just loaded that shows the importance of getting not just the right sewing machine but the right sewing table for it as well. Not the CB341 machine but pretty close to the size. There are a few other video's on this machine there on my channel as well. I will post this again later in its own topic section a bit later.

 

[kgg]

48 minutes ago, RockyAussie said:

Here is a link to the video

Great video showing the difference in table function but most importantly table construction / strength. Also the bag is damn nice.

kgg

[RockyAussie]

21 hours ago, kgg said:

Great video showing the difference in table function but most importantly table construction / strength. Also the bag is damn nice.

kgg

Thanks @kgg. I noticed a comment on that video this morning saying that they had the same machine but they got it with the smaller table. The new table I changed to has a footprint around 4" shorter and quite a bit easier to manoeuvre around in tight spaces. After discussions with the Cowboy agents here the newer tables in future will have a little less overhang under the cylinder arm still. 

[kgg]

5 minutes ago, RockyAussie said:

After discussions with the Cowboy agents here the newer tables in future will have a little less overhang under the cylinder arm still.

I do like the pedestal style bases so much more space. On my Kobe LS-1341 (clone of Juki 341) the center of the base of the machine hangs over the table top by very small amount. I think a good style of base for a cylinder machine would be like those old case iron cobbler bases that were used for the Singer 29K. When I can find another case iron cobbler base I am going revamp/modify it so I can mount the LS-1341 and servo on it.

kgg

[RockyAussie]

2 minutes ago, kgg said:

I do like the pedestal style bases so much more space. On my Kobe LS-1341 (clone of Juki 341) the center of the base of the machine hangs over the table top by very small amount. I think a good style of base for a cylinder machine would be like those old case iron cobbler bases that were used for the Singer 29K. When I can find another case iron cobbler base I am going revamp/modify it so I can mount the LS-1341 and servo on it.

kgg

I agree the overhang part but you would still only have a turning circle of a large shoe on the under table part. That may be an impediment on larger tote bags and such.

[kgg]

2 hours ago, RockyAussie said:

I agree the overhang part but you would still only have a turning circle of a large shoe on the under table part.

Good point.

kgg

[Wizcrafts]

I have multiple sewing machines in my shop. When it comes to sewing shoes, vests, Cowboy or biker hats, ball caps, or shallow bags, I use a 7 inch post bed machine. I can rotate the work around the post. If I need to sew something long and hollow, like a boot, pouch, purse, or deep bag, I use a boot patcher.

I have a Techsew 2700 cylinder arm machine on a U shape table. I use it to sew cuffs, hem pants, sew around the outside of bags, etc. Those items never give me any problem due to the shape of the table. It even came with a flat table attachment. A well equipped custom shop can have more than one type of sewing machine. Mine happens to have 9 with another walking foot machine at home.

[Yogeri]

Sorry it’s been a while… but I want to thank everyone one who chimed in and helped me in my quest for a leather sewing machine. Just wanted to update this thread.

My CB 341 should be here Monday, November 1. I’ll pick it up at a local terminal in my truck, probably will disassemble to get it up one flight to my leather crafts room. I’m hoping that I can get V207 to run smoothly through it if I have occasion to make small sheaths. Really excited to use this machine, it will up my game and hopefully help propel my hobby to something resembling a side business, for now. 
 

I’ve retired my 31-17, replaced in its table with a very inexpensive Mercury 406 (GC6-7 clone?, that’s the manual I got with it). It handles 138/138 on just about anything I can fit under the presser feet, it even sews 207 on top with some complaining, but for what I’m making 69 thru 138 thread is all I need it to stitch. 
 

(Sew) glad there exists a forum such as this!