What material makes the best burnisher?

[kgg]

I am planning on turning a 3" diameter burnisher and am wondering what material would be best suited and why for burnishing using a motorized burnisher?

metal: steel / brass / aluminum

wood: soft woods / hardwoods

Any thoughts

kgg

 

Edited November 29, 2021 by kgg
wording

[McCarthy]

Cocobolo is pretty much universally respected for burnishing. The grooves darken but don't transfer dye after you wipe it. I have tried oak and didn't like it. Also tried brass and it didn't do much.  I have seen someone on youtube using aluminum but I forget who. Sam Andrews maybe.

[Hardrada]

Yeah, cocobolo.

I tried using brass with a burnishing attachment for my creasing machine, but it didn't really work that well with Edge Kote.

[dikman]

Yep, Sam Andrews uses aluminium so it can't be too bad. I made a couple out of wood, one using a hardish wood the other a slightly softer wood and both work fine, but I think hardwood would be better than softwood.

[DrmCa]

Cocobolo is pricey.

Any hard wood would work.

I'd be weary of soft wood as it breaks and wears easily.

[kgg]

Thank you all for the info. If I go with wood I would like to us a North American species. I can see the softwoods like spruce cracking / breaking / wearing or even your softer hardwood species where as your tougher hardwoods like your eastern iron woods, white oaks and hard maples being stronger.

This info has sent me down the wood rabbit hole and so far have found the following info:

A lot burnishers use the non native to North America rosewood Cocobolo which has Janka rating of 2,960 Ibf

Native to North America:

i) Southern Live Oak (Quercus virginiana) has Janka rating of 2680 Ibf

ii) Eastern Ironwood (Ostrya virginiana) has Janka rating of 1,860 Ibf

iii) Hard maple has Janka rating of 1,500 Ibf

iv) White Oak has Janka rating of 1,360 Ibf

As a reference your typical White Spruce has Janka rating of 460 Ibf.

This raises the question if a good burnisher is based on hardness why not just go with metal or are there other factors?

  On 11/29/2021 at 6:42 AM, dikman said:

Yep, Sam Andrews uses aluminium so it can't be too bad.

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I couldn't find him so if you have a link I would appreciate it.

  On 11/29/2021 at 4:57 AM, Hardrada said:

Yeah, cocobolo.

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kgg

 

[DrmCa]

Do not overthink it. Beech, birch, oak, all of the hardwoods will do just fine.

[Cumberland Highpower]

i found long ago elm made a good hard burnishing head. oak seemed the least stable. maybe the grain structure?

Edited November 29, 2021 by Cumberland Highpower

[JLSleather]

oak is very good - and in N. America it's everywhere

[Hardrada]

This is mine: http://www.proedgeburnishers.com/hand-burnishers.html

Posting as reference, since the OP mentioned he wants to turn his own.

They make burnishers for machines too: http://www.proedgeburnishers.com/motor-burnishers.html

[kgg]

  On 11/29/2021 at 7:30 PM, Hardrada said:

Posting as reference, since the OP mentioned he wants to turn his own.

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There is no question the Proedge are nice looking burnishers. They are on the pricey side for someone who can turn their own with either a wood lathe or metal lathe. I am planning on turning one using a metal lathe that is also another reason for the question about using metal as a burnisher.

kgg

[dikman]

 

This is the guy, you can see his burnisher at 13m 29secs. He has other videos too.

[kgg]

  On 11/30/2021 at 4:53 AM, dikman said:

This is the guy, you can see his burnisher at 13m 29secs. He has other videos too.

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Thank you. That is a nice burnisher as it stays close to the body of the machine so you can apply a lot of pressure.

kgg

[JLSleather]

  On 11/30/2021 at 4:53 AM, dikman said:

This is the guy, you can see his burnisher at 13m 29secs. He has other videos too.

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Sam is pretty good most of the time. Hank appears to REALLY be packin' on the pounds

  On 11/30/2021 at 12:05 AM, kgg said:

e Proedge are nice looking burnishers. They are on the pricey side for someone who can turn their own with either a wood lathe or metal lathe.

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Yup.  Never did understand why somebody would pay 50, 60, 80 $ for something you could do yourself - with whatever size grooves you want - with a piece of oak dowel stuck in a drill press and a file applied

 

[kgg]

  On 11/30/2021 at 12:24 PM, JLSleather said:

Never did understand why somebody would pay 50, 60, 80 $ for something you could do yourself

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Maybe I'm just cheap but I love to tinker and for the most part I have the time. I approach things where if I need / want something simple I'll usually give it a go first. Sort of jack of all trades, master of none approach. If I fail well then I'll buy a tailor made.

kgg

[JLSleather]

  On 11/30/2021 at 12:49 PM, kgg said:

need / want something simple

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exactly.  and since buying theirs means you STILL need a drill press, might as well buy the drill press and spend 20 minutes making YOUR OWN burnisher.

I dont think that's "cheap", I think that's SMART

[kgg]

  On 11/30/2021 at 5:29 PM, JLSleather said:

I dont think that's "cheap", I think that's SMART

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Thank you, I haven't been accused of that before. HaHa

kgg

[kgg]

  On 11/30/2021 at 4:53 AM, dikman said:

This is the guy, you can see his burnisher at 13m 29secs. He has other videos too.

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I couldn't find a email address or whether the burnisher was aluminum or steel. So me being me I called him, a really nice guy. He confirmed he made it out of aluminum as steel will turn the leather blue. 

kgg

[chuck123wapati]

  On 11/30/2021 at 5:29 PM, JLSleather said:

 

I dont think that's "cheap", I think that's SMART

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That's why you buy tools so you can make your stuff. IT is smart! Here in Wyo. its also a necessity sometimes. I built one on my wood lathe and as i was testing it realized i could also use the lathe to power it. Used local scrub oak. 

[PastorBob]

I bought one of those cheap cocobolo tips for my dremel.  I still prefer the hand slicker from Tandy and a bit of canvas.  Seems to go just as fast, except for on belts.

[Spyros]

Canvas always gives me the best results, and now I'm wondering how come no one has made a rotating wheel out of canvas for burnishing...  maybe because it will probably wear too quickly.  Maybe I should make one and try 

[dikman]

Spyros, the same thought occurred to me once, but as you say I don't think it would stand up to the pressure and speed.

kgg, I thought about making one out of aluminium as it would be pretty easy to do on the lathe but the biggest problem was how to cut the thread for the shaft in the ally. The advantage of wood is that I could drill the centre hole slightly undersize and then force it onto the shaft, using the shaft thread to cut a matching thread in the wood.

[kgg]

  On 11/30/2021 at 9:49 PM, dikman said:

I thought about making one out of aluminium as it would be pretty easy to do on the lathe but the biggest problem was how to cut the thread for the shaft in the ally.

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My plan of attack is to use a metal lathe that way I can use either wood or metal for the burnisher. My main shaft on my burnisher / polisher is 3/4" that tappers down to a 5/8"-11 threaded section.

So far me thoughts are:

For a aluminum: Drilling a 17/32" hole almost to the end then drilling a 13/16 " hole so far down and then tapping the 17/32" section for a 5/8" - 11 bolt thread. Once that is done cut the grooves in the surface, drill and tap a grub screw in the 13/16" end.

For wood: Round and mill the grooves into the wood to the correct diameters, drill a 11/16" hole completely from end to the other then drill a 1 5/8" hole so far down to accommodate a 5/8"nut and on the other end drill a 1 3/8" flat washer to butt up against the 3/4" shaft.

[Cumberland Highpower]

  On 11/30/2021 at 9:28 PM, Spyros said:

Canvas always gives me the best results, and now I'm wondering how come no one has made a rotating wheel out of canvas for burnishing...  maybe because it will probably wear too quickly.  Maybe I should make one and try 

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Well it sort of has been done.  I have a shoe finisher/lineshaft type deal and it has a cast iron 'lobed" wheel of some kind that has a canvas jacket over it.  That qualifies as a burnisher of sorts. (I think?)   I also have both a bench Randall Burnisher and a Galli FCE that has wheels that are made from alternating layers of canvas and leather.  

  On 11/30/2021 at 9:49 PM, dikman said:

Spyros, the same thought occurred to me once, but as you say I don't think it would stand up to the pressure and speed.

kgg, I thought about making one out of aluminium as it would be pretty easy to do on the lathe but the biggest problem was how to cut the thread for the shaft in the ally. The advantage of wood is that I could drill the centre hole slightly undersize and then force it onto the shaft, using the shaft thread to cut a matching thread in the wood.

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Dikman I don't know if aluminum is a good idea.   Aluminum is soft and can rub off onto the leather.  Damp leather might be ok, but if it were somewhat less than soft it would make black on your leather from the aluminum rubbing off...

Edited December 1, 2021 by Cumberland Highpower

[dikman]

When I first thought about it I wasn't sure it would work either, but the fact Sam Andrews uses one proves that it does, in fact, work. The only proviso could be in the grade of aluminium used, some are harder/denser than others.

kgg, I needed mine to fit on the left side of the grinder, which is a left-hand thread, plus the shaft is too short to extend past the burnisher. Finding such taps here isn't easy and the lathe I had back then couldn't cut threads. Your ideas should work.