Saddle stitching confusion.

[zuludog]

57 minutes ago, chuck123wapati said:

I just bought new and good diamond chisels which brought up a question when you get to a corner how do you change the direction of the holes so the stitch sits correctly in it? the slits go from one direction to another is that a problem or an overthink?

Make the holes with the diamond chisel along the sides right up to the corner; they will automatically slant in the right direction. Then for the hole in the actual corner use a round awl -- which (obviously) doesn't slant in any direction.

Edited December 7, 2021 by zuludog

[chuck123wapati]

4 minutes ago, zuludog said:

Make the holes with the diamond chisel along the sides right up to the corner; they will automatically slant in the right direction. Then for the hole in the actual corner use a round awl -- which (obviously) doesn't slant in any direction.

dang what an easy answer lol. I can do that. I thank you!

[JLSleather]

I don't like "chisels".  I didn't like them in the 80's when they were well made, and I certainly don't like the 'stuff' tha's available now. 

A good awl is much better for getting all the holes consistent depth (size) for the thread, works on items that arent' flat.  Having said that, a GOOD awl is tough to find too.

5 hours ago, Tugadude said:

best aesthetics out of a row of stitching takes trial and error

yeah, that's what I said.  Turn off the videos and all that time-sucking noise, and PRACTICE.

[Tugadude]

1 hour ago, chuck123wapati said:

Please don't think i was trying to be a smart a## with my comment you brought up really good points but said nothing about how to accomplish them.

when do you use a cast?

how do you determine spacing?

how do you determine size of thread?

Me i read and watched then practiced and practiced more its quite easy to stick two needles through a hole but as you said doing it so that it looks good from every aspect, hole size, thread size, corners etc. is the intended outcome i think for anyone.

I just bought new and good diamond chisels which brought up a question when you get to a corner how do you change the direction of the holes so the stitch sits correctly in it? the slits go from one direction to another is that a problem or an overthink?

I didn't think you were.  And you ask some really good questions.  Here's some answers based on what I've experienced.

when do you use a cast?  It really does nothing on very thin, pliable leather, so I never do it then.  If anything I found it counterproductive due to the amount of tension it created.  I always use it on thicker projects of overall 4 oz. layers and up.  And as stated previously, it does help the slant on the backside of your work.  Some don't care if their stitching slants, but I do.

how do you determine spacing?  To me it depends on the overall size of the item.  Small items demand tighter spacing and smaller thread to keep from looking chunky.  Too much thread on too small an article just looks bad to me.  I have one set of chisels at 2.7mm and I really like that for watch straps and wallets.  For notebooks and such, 3.5mm seems to work really nicely.  I have some 5mm chisels which I find helpful on turned bags because if you line the bag you don't see the stitching anyway.  

how do you determine size of thread?  Aesthetics mainly.  I know what I like and choose the size of iron and thread accordingly.  Nigel Armitage has a great set of reviews on his website in which he recommends what type of thread goes well with each tool reviewed.  I don't like chunky stitching.  But I don't like seeing too much of the hole either, so it can be a compromise.  In general I find myself using 0.6mm and 0.8mm bonded polyester mostly.  

 

And yes, when going around corners you want to put a round hole in the corner and measure carefully both directions so the "corner" stitches are identical.  If you need to cheat, do it somewhere along the stitch line, but never in the corner where it will be very obvious.

 

[Tugadude]

3 minutes ago, JLSleather said:

I don't like "chisels".  I didn't like them in the 80's when they were well made, and I certainly don't like the 'stuff' tha's available now. 

A good awl is much better for getting all the holes consistent depth (size) for the thread, works on items that arent' flat.  Having said that, a GOOD awl is tough to find too.

yeah, that's what I said.  Turn off the videos and all that time-sucking noise, and PRACTICE.

To each his/her own but chisels rock in my opinion.  They might not be for everyone and for every project, but they can help beginners and intermediates create a much better row of stitching than they otherwise could with an awl.

The advantages of the traditional awl are well established and all things being equal, projects where an awl is used will be stronger.  But, and there's always a but, all of my work is wallets, watch straps, small bags and the like and they aren't going to need the strength of stitch as horse tack, for example.

When I began in leatherwork there were just a couple of companies making stitching chisels and now there are dozens and dozens.  There's a reason and that's because they work.  You still have to practice with them, but like I said, in a relatively short period of time almost anyone can turn out a nice-looking and functional stitch.

[Klara]

2 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

...when you get to a corner how do you change the direction of the holes so the stitch sits correctly in it? the slits go from one direction to another is that a problem or an overthink?

In France, the mark (piercing through the leather is a big no no) in the corner is supposed to point to the inside of the piece.

As for the relationship between leather/object, stitches per inch, needle and thread, DecoCuir have tables, and probably other suppliers as well: https://www.decocuir.com/couture-cuir-fil-aiguille-choisir-guide-c1200x67488

But often it's a question of personal taste anyway.

6 hours ago, JLSleather said:

  But in this one, even Al (who is usually very to the point and informational) got a bit WORDY.  ..

I admit, I started by mostly looking at the pictures (they are drawings of a quality to remind us that drawings can be better than photos. Later, when I read the text, the book got even better...

Edited December 7, 2021 by Klara

[JLSleather]

2 minutes ago, Tugadude said:

There's a reason and that's because they work.

perhaps.  or perhaps they're making more of them because they're cheap and easy to make and they sell?

where's the british gal usedta come around here.... beautiful stitching at like 11 to the inch... can't remember what her name was now ...

[Klara]

Stitching chisels are a shortcut to a nice-looking item, but they cost a lot of money (for just marking stitches the cheapies from Aliexpress will do) and I feel that working with an awl is faster. And more fun.

[Tugadude]

JLS said...

"where's the british gal usedta come around here.... beautiful stitching at like 11 to the inch... can't remember what her name was now ..."

You probably mean Valerie Michael, and her work is world-renowned.  

[alpha2]

I second Nigel Armitage videos. Saved me from giving up hand stitching altogether. And JLS is right, there are MANY videos that have no business being on youtube. Like the ones that have the stitchers hands blocking what is going on, most of the time.