Newbie question about chrome vs veg tan

[CrankAddict]

After a few months of watching videos and reading I figured I was ready to step into the real world   I stopped into the leather store the other day to pick up some sample leather and some basic tools.  My main projects of interest are watch straps and wallets at this point.  All of the leather than looked good and felt nice was chrome tan.  The veg tan stuff was very rigid and the coloring was natural tan and boring.  Of course this is just what they happened to have in the scrap bin at the moment, but I grabbed some chrome tan scraps and headed home.

I started out cutting 2 strips of roughly 3 oz leather and gluing them together.  This made a very soft and supple strap, but it seems very difficult to work.  It's too soft to edge bevel.  It's very difficult to make a stitching line with the creaser tool because the side just squishes in.  I can't really sand or burnish the edge at all even using a wooden dowel chucked in a drill press (i.e. I know I have enough speed to create heat).  So is this just the nature of the beast with chrome tan in general?  Or did I just get some "extra soft" chrome tan?  I feel like I'm missing some other parameter to describe what I need here.  I know about the tanning type and the thickness, but is there some other set of terms to describe the softness?

And in general, what type of leather would make the most comfortable watch strap?  I hate the rigid, thick uncomfortable straps I've had in the past.  As I said, the scraps I got the other day feel great against the skin, but they also feel unlike any watch strap I've ever seen, so there must be a reason for that, right?

Thanks!

Jeff

[TonyV]

chrome tan is basically upholstery and clothing leather, soft and supple.  It's next to impossible to tool it, edge it or burnish it, but it does make nice bags, jackets and even watch straps.

veg tan is tooling leather.  It's what you want if you need to stamp, carve, edge and burnish your project.  It gets more supple with use.  A light weight veg makes good watch straps, too.

 

Edited December 27, 2021 by TonyV

[battlemunky]

I've only ever used veg tan for watch straps and they are as nice and supple, after an initial break-in period, as chrome tanned is laying in the off-cuts bin. I have a buddy that doesn't really care for "the western look" that natural veg has....so I introduced him to places like RML, DLS, BuckleGuy, etc., where he found nice and supple veg that didn't have the "western" look to it.

I told him that I don't mess with much other than natural veg and that it turns out just fine but he still needed some help. There is a reason veg has worked for the past few thousand years. Not that there is anything really wrong with chrome, but application certainly matters with respect to difficulty.

Look for "milled" veg tan if you want a softer feel, or "hand", or just get a thinner strap and give it a few weeks and it'll be your best friend. Note that milled veg will have similar problems finishing as chrome does though; it's a PITA to edge bevel and isn't as friendly with tooling.

Share some pics too, its always fun for us to see what you are going through as you see it.

[CrankAddict]

Thanks for the responses!  Yeah as I look into the high end watch straps more the materials I'm seeing do seem to be veg tanned (shell cordovan, novonappa, English bridle) 

 

33 minutes ago, battlemunky said:

Share some pics too, its always fun for us to see what you are going through as you see it.

Below you can see what $5 of chrome tan scrap gets.  Considering what hand made leather items sell for this shocks me, but I'm not complaining!  And I do realize the skill and time it takes has a huge impact on price.  But as a woodworker I'm just used to material cost being pretty steep.  This, on the other hand, feels almost like the material costs are irrelevant.  But obviously there are more premium leathers out there...

I also attached a picture of my first saddle stitch.  The leather is so soft it seems a bit hard to maintain consistency because if you pull too hard it squeezes the leather significantly.  But I guess can't expect perfection for stitch number one.  I also don't like how the strands of the thread seem to be separating from each other making an individual stitch look like multiple pieces of thread side by side.  Is that just a poor thread choice (triple strand waxed nylon) or something I'm doing wrong?

 I also did get one strip of very thick (5.3mm) veg tan.  It edge bevels and creases nicely, but I can't even hammer the chisel through it (I didn't want to risk bending the teeth so I'm not willing to whack it too hard).

Edited December 27, 2021 by CrankAddict

[fredk]

Looks like you're not waxing your thread. Wax it as you sew. 

You can never pull stitches up real tight on chrome tan, its too soft

Sharpen and polish the teeth of your stitching chisel

Edited December 28, 2021 by fredk

[CrankAddict]

44 minutes ago, fredk said:

Looks like you're not waxing your thread. Wax it as you sew. 

Thanks for the reply!  The thread is pre-waxed, and it clearly sticks to itself on the bobbin.  But even so, I pulled the length across a block of beeswax twice before stitching.  I did not wax again while stitching, but I only did about a 3 inch run so I didn't think I needed to.  Does it really need that much wax or is it something else I'm messing up?

[fredk]

Yes, it needs lots of waxing, every few inches sometimes. As you pull the thread thru a hole the leather is scraping off some of that wax. Put the thread on top of a block of soft-ish bees wax. put your thumb on the thread and press the thread into the wax, then pull the thread thru the wax still with your thumb pressing it onto the wax. The thread will cut a groove in the wax and get a good coating. But you need to do this several times as you sew

[Spyros]

6 hours ago, CrankAddict said:

But as a woodworker I'm just used to material cost being pretty steep.  This, on the other hand, feels almost like the material costs are irrelevant.  But obviously there are more premium leathers out there...

As another woodworker, I would say enjoy the fact that you can make something on your kitchen table without dust, noise, or being permanently alert to the risk of losing a finger to some spinning blade.  I found it very refreshing when I started 

Material cost will go up quickly as you move on from scraps, but you're not wrong that the work you put in will always be worth a lot more than the material.  My advice is don't be afraid to buy the absolute best leather you desire for your projects, straight from the start.  Just buy a little bit, find a place that sells panels instead of sides.  To keep the cost of learning errors down, keep your first projects small instead of keeping the material cheap.  Making things like watch straps and key fobs will teach you all the skills you need for making big projects later, they are exactly the same, just bigger.    It is important to know what is the leather you bought, because different leathers behave differently and require different designs and different processing methods, so you may as will start learning the ones you will ultimately be using.  Just my 2c, when you're done with those scraps, buy a little bit of expensive leather and make small things with it.

[chrisash]

Just as in the fact there are hundreds of types of wood, there are hundreds of types of leather there are even veg tan that is then treated as chrome. you need to pick the right one for the job. also the animal and also the cut of leather have different properties

YouTube is full of good advice on all leather work but the best is by Nigel Armitage listed below but does incur a monthly fee

I would suggest you look at some videos by  

 

[CrankAddict]

8 hours ago, Spyros said:

As another woodworker, I would say enjoy the fact that you can make something on your kitchen table without dust, noise, or being permanently alert to the risk of losing a finger to some spinning blade.  I found it very refreshing when I started 

Material cost will go up quickly as you move on from scraps, but you're not wrong that the work you put in will always be worth a lot more than the material.  My advice is don't be afraid to buy the absolute best leather you desire for your projects, straight from the start.  Just buy a little bit, find a place that sells panels instead of sides.  To keep the cost of learning errors down, keep your first projects small instead of keeping the material cheap.  Making things like watch straps and key fobs will teach you all the skills you need for making big projects later, they are exactly the same, just bigger.    It is important to know what is the leather you bought, because different leathers behave differently and require different designs and different processing methods, so you may as will start learning the ones you will ultimately be using.  Just my 2c, when you're done with those scraps, buy a little bit of expensive leather and make small things with it.

Great points.  Tools are another area where I'm feeling like I should really spring for the good stuff.  I know in the woodshop I've never been satisfied long term with the cheapo option so I'm trying to learn from that experience.  The issue is that my local stores don't seem to carry the stuff the internet raves about so I get torn between supporting a local business and buying a premium tool.

Also, it's funny you mention the risk of losing a finger... I'm sure it's just a matter of familiarity at this point, but at the moment I'm finding myself far more anxious about cutting my finger with this Olfa razor knife than I am using the miter saw or band saw haha.

 

5 hours ago, chrisash said:

YouTube is full of good advice on all leather work but the best is by Nigel Armitage listed below but does incur a monthly fee

I have not tried his premium offering, but I have watched countless videos by Nigel, Chartermade, Corter, Mascon and others.  That said, the single best video I've found, by far, on saddle stitching was by Peter Nitz.  He has a series of videos that you have to pay for, but this one free offering has me strongly considering it even though they're quite expensive.