Shoulders vs sides

[327fed]

I have been buying Tandy double shoulders when on sale, 9-10 oz for my amateurish holster attempts. I want to try somebody else’s product. Many other suppliers offer single shoulders or sides. I like bigger pieces for less waste of several small projects. What is the upside/ downside of shoulders vs. sides? Will thickness be consistent on sides? Thanks. 

[toxo]

1 hour ago, 327fed said:

I have been buying Tandy double shoulders when on sale, 9-10 oz for my amateurish holster attempts. I want to try somebody else’s product. Many other suppliers offer single shoulders or sides. I like bigger pieces for less waste of several small projects. What is the upside/ downside of shoulders vs. sides? Will thickness be consistent on sides? Thanks. 

Not a definitive answer but the best part of a hide (and usually the thickest) is the top part of a side. it can also be the longest if you're making belts. It's also the most scar free part of a hide because the shoulders and rump get itched a lot, sometimes on sharp stuff like barbed wire.The lower part of a shoulder and the belly can be thinner and stretchier. Someone will correct me if I've got anything wrong and no doubt come up with more answers.

[Hags]

Ditto TOXO. I buy sides for much of the same reasons as above. I also feel I get the most sq feet for my $. As above, I use the back or top of the leather for belts. I then cut off the belly and use that for dog leashes or narrow straps, and generally lighter use stuff. The in between or bend part I use for holsters. You have an advantage in that you can see the leather you are getting.  I cant due to location, so I buy Hermann Oak to be sure of the quality I'm getting. I buy b grades, but you may want to try a craft grade HO, you may be surprised at the difference in the leather.

[327fed]

Thanks. So craft grade is above B?

[tsunkasapa]

5 hours ago, 327fed said:

Thanks. So craft grade is above B?

No, Craft is more like C.

[TomE]

Download the Springfield Leather Catalog.  It has an extensive description of how to choose leather for your projects.  Also, they have some Youtube videos addressing leather quality, grades, etc.  Hermann Oak tooling leather is my favorite because of its consistent substance.  I buy sides and can use most of a side for straps to make tack.

[327fed]

Thanks

[327fed]

Wow. That Springfield catalog is a PHD in leather . Answered so many questions. Saw lots of exotics I never knew existed. 

[JLSleather]

RIDICULOUS to pay good money for bad leather.  The difference between a side of "C" (or worse) leather and A grade is like $20 (im talkng holster leather since that's what you stated you were making).

The leather world has become BURIED in retailers with pretty stories about why you should buy their CRAP and thank them for supplying it.

Stick to Hermann Oak or Wickett-Craig leather.  If you don't want to store / stock 10 or more sides (as H.O. requires), you can and should call Cheryl at Goliger Leather, and she'll sell you individual sides.  Very solid, very clean Hermann Oak leather.  Costs me a bit more because of shipping from CA, but allows me to get a side or two of a weight I wouldn't ordinarily stock.

Just FYI... Hermann Oak FROM Hermann Oak is $7.81 per foot.  I buy backs (sides with belly removed) and that's currently $9.26.  Not $10...Not $12....Not $15... like you see from some of these "retailers".  Anybody selling you a PIECE of $8/ft leather for $12-15 per foot is NOT doing you a favor.  Shouldn't be necessary to say that, and yet these days ....

http://www.hermannoakleather.com/products-and-pricing/strap

 

3 minutes ago, 327fed said:

Wow. That Springfield catalog is a PHD in leather . Answered so many questions. Saw lots of exotics I never knew existed. 

How much do you pay for stories?  Cuz I can talk ALL DAY LONG if I'm getting paid for it.

 

Edited January 9, 2022 by JLSleather

[Gulrok]

On 1/9/2022 at 12:25 PM, JLSleather said:

RIDICULOUS to pay good money for bad leather.  The difference between a side of "C" (or worse) leather and A grade is like $20 (im talkng holster leather since that's what you stated you were making).

The leather world has become BURIED in retailers with pretty stories about why you should buy their CRAP and thank them for supplying it.

Stick to Hermann Oak or Wickett-Craig leather.  If you don't want to store / stock 10 or more sides (as H.O. requires), you can and should call Cheryl at Goliger Leather, and she'll sell you individual sides.  Very solid, very clean Hermann Oak leather.  Costs me a bit more because of shipping from CA, but allows me to get a side or two of a weight I wouldn't ordinarily stock.

Just FYI... Hermann Oak FROM Hermann Oak is $7.81 per foot.  I buy backs (sides with belly removed) and that's currently $9.26.  Not $10...Not $12....Not $15... like you see from some of these "retailers".  Anybody selling you a PIECE of $8/ft leather for $12-15 per foot is NOT doing you a favor.  Shouldn't be necessary to say that, and yet these days ....

http://www.hermannoakleather.com/products-and-pricing/strap

 

How much do you pay for stories?  Cuz I can talk ALL DAY LONG if I'm getting paid for it.

 

I did not realize that Hermann Oak was doing 10/sides minimum. Thats not that bad at all....


Trevor 

[JLSleather]

37 minutes ago, Gulrok said:

. Thats not that bad at all....

Nope, it aint.  Course, ya gotta keep the kitty off of it, but otherwise it'll keep 'til ya use it

10 backs shipped up here ends up running around $18-1900 ... for 180 feet of leather and no bellies.  So, right at $10/foot for the best leather you can get, and the best hides of the best leather.

I have ordered from a number of "retailers" selling Hermann Oak leather.  They all claim they're just reselling what H.O. already graded, but with one exception (Goliger Leather) they all seem to think the customer won't know if they send a "C" or "D" grade, even though the order was for an "A" or "B".  I had one place send me a side of 5/6 I could literally stretch line a fitness band.  Now, granted... 5/6 isn't that heavy, but stilll.... I mean I could cut a 1.5" wide strap, and grab each end, and pull it out about 4-5 inches!  And they charge 30% more than H.O. charges for the GOOD STUFF.

So, yeah - if you're going to do leather every 7th Saturday, don't worry about it.  If you're serious about making quality goods - either for yourself or for sale - call Hermann Oak 

[Gulrok]

On 1/11/2022 at 6:18 PM, JLSleather said:

Nope, it aint.  Course, ya gotta keep the kitty off of it, but otherwise it'll keep 'til ya use it

10 backs shipped up here ends up running around $18-1900 ... for 180 feet of leather and no bellies.  So, right at $10/foot for the best leather you can get, and the best hides of the best leather.

I have ordered from a number of "retailers" selling Hermann Oak leather.  They all claim they're just reselling what H.O. already graded, but with one exception (Goliger Leather) they all seem to think the customer won't know if they send a "C" or "D" grade, even though the order was for an "A" or "B".  I had one place send me a side of 5/6 I could literally stretch line a fitness band.  Now, granted... 5/6 isn't that heavy, but stilll.... I mean I could cut a 1.5" wide strap, and grab each end, and pull it out about 4-5 inches!  And they charge 30% more than H.O. charges for the GOOD STUFF.

So, yeah - if you're going to do leather every 7th Saturday, don't worry about it.  If you're serious about making quality goods - either for yourself or for sale - call Hermann Oak 

I have consistently gotten really bad products from suppliers selling W&C and HO in heavier weights. We've gotten absolutely mangled leather and its expensive to ship it back. 

So much so that I'd gone ahead and switched to RJF leather for backs and sides of English Bridle. 

Been very very happy with it. Everything has been a home run. 

Its making me think about switching back to HO for some products. I'll have to think more on it. 

[TomE]

14 minutes ago, Gulrok said:

I have consistently gotten really bad products from suppliers selling W&C and HO in heavier weights. We've gotten absolutely mangled leather and its expensive to ship it back. 

So much so that I'd gone ahead and switched to RJF leather for backs and sides of English Bridle. 

Been very very happy with it. Everything has been a home run. 

Its making me think about switching back to HO for some products. I'll have to think more on it. 

Did not know about RJF leather.  I've been using HO bridle and been pleased with the consistency and finish of the grain.  The flesh side has this pastey thing going on that I'm not thrilled with.  Doesn't affect halters made of 2-3 layers, but I'm starting to make bridles and not thrilled with having that junk on the back side of cheek pieces and throat straps.  Maybe there's a better way to finish it with a slicker.  

How does the RJF bridle leather compare to W&C or HO?

[Gulrok]

7 minutes ago, TomE said:

Did not know about RJF leather.  I've been using HO bridle and been pleased with the consistency and finish of the grain.  The flesh side has this pastey thing going on that I'm not thrilled with.  Doesn't affect halters made of 2-3 layers, but I'm starting to make bridles and not thrilled with having that junk on the back side of cheek pieces and throat straps.  Maybe there's a better way to finish it with a slicker.  

How does the RJF bridle leather compare to W&C or HO?

https://www.rjfleather.com/leather-products

RJF Leather is a home run. They're quick to respond. They're close to me so I usually get the leather with in 2 days. The backs are pasted on it, but you might be able to ask for it with an unpasted back. ( I really have no idea if they offer that or not ). 

The leather is really consistent and I'm a big fan. 

https://www.rjfleather.com/#contact

 

[JLSleather]

i WON'T be shopping with RJF.  A few years back, Robert and I decided to check this out.  He ordered a couple different cuts, and I ordered a couple other than what he ordered.  NONE of it was acceptable.  Lesson learned.

There was another one, too.. same approach, same results.  American.. something something ..?

 

 

Edited January 15, 2022 by JLSleather

[Gulrok]

2 hours ago, JLSleather said:

i WON'T be shopping with RJF.  A few years back, Robert and I decided to check this out.  He ordered a couple different cuts, and I ordered a couple other than what he ordered.  NONE of it was acceptable.  Lesson learned.

There was another one, too.. same approach, same results.  American.. something something ..?

 

 

Seriously?

I mean, I'm purchasing English Bridle - and I can't say anything but wonderful things. We've legitimately ordered a few thousand dollars worth of EB from them over the last few months as we finish up some of our HO English Bridle. Now an unfinished / tooling veg? No idea - haven't even touched it.

RJF leather is keystone leather.. or rather RJF leather is a distributor of keystone leather.  https://www.keystoneleather.com/

American Leather Direct - yeah - we purchased from them too because the crap I was getting from our W&C suppliers (Not W&C direct)  kept having disgusting and gouged finished backs. The ALD stuff was better than C or D stuff from W&C. We've had our growing pains with HO stuff too, just not directly from them.

Trevor
 

[Doc Reaper]

Buy hides or sides,  most folks want your business, but the moment you get a bad side send that back. Tandy is not on my list