What sewing machine to buy exclusively for soft and thin Lamb nappa leather jackets sewing?

[ClaudioBravo]

Quote

 

"Can you get a hold of a Juki DNU-1541 to try out? It may be suitable if the pressures and tensions are reduced. Alexander compares them in this video..."

 

 

Hey Wizcrafts, thank you very much for your efforts.

Yes, i can try DNU 1541, but only a new one.

And in my county, a new 1541 is expensive than slightly used (no any trace of use) Juki 2810-7.
Also, i don't want any belt drive machine in my workshop. Only direct drive machined are accepted. Simply, i want a new technology. And i like Chinese Jack brand very much, because they give you all the features and all the automation without pneumatics, for a very reasonable price!
And both 1541 and 2810-7 use same needle system...
 

[chrisash]

Just a note of caution, Hi-tech gives you all the bells and whistles you will ever need and can save time in production runs, but also comes with drawbacks in that Jacks (at least in the UK) models are seemingly often changed for something slightly different and that could mean problems say 3-5 years down the line when repairs of the electronics can be very difficult

Sometimes simpler can be far more long time buys, a electronic reverse button can save minutes in a factory but offers little over the mechanical lever to someone not in a rush to get the maximum out of the machine. and can be far more reliable like other gismo's

[DrmCa]

What are you planning to do for sleeves if you only buy a flatbed machine?

You are familiar with sewing textiles. Now you are entering leather market. It is different. The speeds are slower, stitches are longer, and each stitch placement matters. High-speed textile machines won't do it for you.

If you are fine with having to have your machines repaired when electronics or pneumatics gives in, of course you can buy computerized machines. But IMO for leather a used conventional Pfaff-335 with a flatbed attachment will take you miles ahead both in terms of initial cost and running costs.

I have no interest in talking you into that particular model, but a slower cylinder-arm machine is more flexible for making leather garments than any of the above computerized flat-bed machines.

[ClaudioBravo]

7 hours ago, chrisash said:

Just a note of caution, Hi-tech gives you all the bells and whistles you will ever need and can save time in production runs, but also comes with drawbacks in that Jacks (at least in the UK) models are seemingly often changed for something slightly different and that could mean problems say 3-5 years down the line when repairs of the electronics can be very difficult

Sometimes simpler can be far more long time buys, a electronic reverse button can save minutes in a factory but offers little over the mechanical lever to someone not in a rush to get the maximum out of the machine. and can be far more reliable like other gismo's

Thanks for your comment!

Yes, I got your point. I gave a fortune some 17 years ago when I bought my first Juki machines. Everyone cost a small fortune but worked like a charm.

Nowadays, if you are sewing in a Western country or Europe, you are making some luxury stuff, or you can't survive. I will never compete with Zara, New Yorker, Stradivarius, simply because my garments are 10x better sewed, from better materials, every stitch is in its place, all my zippers are YKK or RiRi... All models are greatly fitted and mostly targeted to girls with great body shape. I'm not politically correct. Couldn't care less for "curves"!   I don't have plus sizes, only standard, "model" sizes! I want customers who could afford to pay more!

90% of my evening dresses are between 120 and 230€ per model (130-250$)... 10% are hand made with lace and rhinestones etc... those are 600+€ and those prices are at the upper end in Eastern Europe!
So, I could easily afford a new machine from an 800-1000 €/$ price range! I always have a few new machines on the floor, so when somebody has some problem, they simply exchange the machine for a new one and continue to work. Later I check the machine to see what is the problem.

So far, Jacks are GREAT machines. A long time ago, nobody liked Samsung and LG.. nowadays, they are standard... But wait a few years... I have TCL tv in my house. It is really exceptional, not great. Tomorrow, TCL would be like Samsung today.
Also, DJI drones and gimbals... A few years ago, who would tell that some Chinese company like DJI would rule the world with their drones and hand stabilisers/gimbals!

If you ask me, Jack is the new DJI! They are here to stay. Jack overlock C4 and C5 was 5 years miles ahead of Juki. Now they have C6 which is even better in every way... Juki release a new overlock to match those from Jack a few weeks before. Guess what... As I have Jack C4 mostly, I recognize a lot of parts from C4 series in a new Jukis... so, it is not a secret that Jack actually makes those for Juki! Also tone of other machines... 

Also, every change at Jack is a kind of innovation. They are removing electromagnet in new lockstitch machines and use servo motor for moving Presser Foot up and down! Both Jukis and Adler are still manual, or if you pay a price of a new city car for non-Eco version, you could get pneumatic! Not to mention a belt transport! Jack doesn't only have a DC direct drive, they have the latest form of DC engine, with high tech inverter drive!

So.. when some of my Jack machines finally dies, I would simply buy a new one, sell a broken one for half-price or simply keep it for parts

I have plans to sell my leather jacket for 500+€/600$. (high price for my market) I have plans to make a dream jacket, with best leather, real fur collar, Riri zippers and an overall great fit. Will use software and CNC cutter to cut bespoke. You enter customers measurements, software correct pattern and cutter cut leather to a client measure... if I can't sell at the high price point, I would not go into that... so I need really ultimate sewing solution.

[ClaudioBravo]

3 hours ago, DrmCa said:

What are you planning to do for sleeves if you only buy a flatbed machine?

You are familiar with sewing textiles. Now you are entering leather market. It is different. The speeds are slower, stitches are longer, and each stitch placement matters. High-speed textile machines won't do it for you.

If you are fine with having to have your machines repaired when electronics or pneumatics gives in, of course you can buy computerized machines. But IMO for leather a used conventional Pfaff-335 with a flatbed attachment will take you miles ahead both in terms of initial cost and running costs.

I have no interest in talking you into that particular model, but a slower cylinder-arm machine is more flexible for making leather garments than any of the above computerized flat-bed machines.

Thanks for your effort really. First, there is no Pfaff anymore. It is Shang Gong now and all machines, except the most expensive ones, are either made in China or in Minerva factory in the Czech Republic, like Durkopp Adler! Also, 335 are outdated construction. And here, I can't buy a new Pfaff 335 anymore. I can buy made in china clones and used one I can't find or they are in very bad condition. Clones are around 2000 euros (~2400$) here and I could buy all manual Durkopp Adler 669 Eco for 3300 euros (~3600$)

But for the leather jacket you need a lot of space and a big flat surface to not damage the leather.. so... that is the main reason I would like a flatbed first.

I have plans to maybe enter into fine leather purses segment, to clone Hermes purses range but right now, it is hard to find skilled workers. But if I succeed, I will buy 669 for sure or something like this:

https://konsew.com/industrial-sewing-machine/jack-industrial-machine/jack-s7-intelligent-control-computerized-post-bed-roller-feed-sewing-machine

if Jack goes out with a cylindrical machine, like this post bed one!

[DrmCa]

Adler is timing belt driven. Timing belts break, and when they do it sucks.

[ClaudioBravo]

Hey, yes, I just browse a Part Book for Adler 669 and really never thought that it use belts instead of solid shaft. Both Pfaff 335 and Jack H5 and 2060G have Shaft, but Jack 6691/2 is a machine that also uses a timing belt.

Whether it is due to thermal expansion of the shaft during long time operation or maybe it is incorrect or insufficient space for a classic shaft, I do not know, but Durkopp Adler is an industry-standard and all possible factories that make car interiors and seats for luxury vehicles like Mercedes, BMW, Rolce Royce.. etc. use these machines daily.
There is nothing better than that in the world, so I believe that this belt drive is the least of your worries.

And here I just remembered to look at the new Delta machines that cost 10k + and they also have a belt.

[Constabulary]

IMO timing belts are not really an issue, modern timing belts are quite long lasting. Old aged not well kept machines stored away in unfavorable conditions  (dust, oil, heat, cold, moist, maybe sun or a combination of one or more) usually have problems with timing belts. Adler and Pfaff used some sort of brownish timing belts for a while (in the period when 67 or 167 and the like where en vogue) but they have learned and no longer so.  So the issues with timing belts you read about are usually found on machines that have been stored away for many years or decades in unfavorable conditions. I would not worry about that when you buy a new machine.

[kgg]

On 1/13/2022 at 5:03 PM, ClaudioBravo said:

First, there is no Pfaff anymore.

Yes, their are no more true PFAFF's, Dürkopp Adler's or Maschinen GmbH ( Mauser ). They have been all acquired by the Chinese company called SGSB GROUP CO. when the ShangGong Co., Ltd. merged with Shanghai SMPIC Co., Ltd. back in 2005. They acquired PFAFF in 2005 and in 2013 acquired Dürkopp Adler and Maschinen GmbH ( Mauser ). The question for me is are those old respected brand names now just overpriced China clone's with an acquired brand name badge?????

kgg

[Constabulary]

I don´t know what they (still) produce in Bielefeld (Dürkopp-Adler) but the plant is still there. The new DA M-Type machines are build in the Czech republic by MInerva 

https://www.minerva-boskovice.com/

Edited January 16, 2022 by Constabulary