Machine Skiving Technique Help Needed

[MtlBiker]

As some of you know, I just got a new bell skiver (my first) and after using it to skive a few test pieces I was really stoked.  Worked like a charm.  So I cut out some nice leather (the same leather I'd been practicing on) pieces for a purse I wanted to make.  But I destroyed every piece!  I don't know if there's a special technique I need to learn or what.  If I skive just one edge, say of a rectangle, it works perfectly.  Same for the opposite side.  But if I try to skive the perpendicular sides (to my first skive edge) the skiver chews up the leather and makes holes.  Now I've got some leather scraps I can't use.

Can anyone tell me what I was doing wrong or explain how I should be skiving these pieces?  The long folded piece in the middle is the gusset and all edges should be skived.  The other pieces are the front and back of the bag and again all edges should be skived.  This is 4-5 oz chrome tan leather.

Thanks very much.

[Spyros]

Well I don't have that machine (yet) but just logically speaking: 

It looks like you skived the long edge, then you removed the piece and turned it 90 degrees to do the short edge, but then the first thing that entered the machine is the part that had already been skived before.

So you effectively double skived that bit, and because you started from an already very thin leather, double skiving it resulted in no leather.  You can see it in the photos, the parts that have holes is where the long and the short skive overlap.

I guess when you're working with such thin leather you just have to remember not to cross-skive the same bits.  There must be some technique to achieve that, I'm sure someone who owns a bell skiver will let us know.

Edited February 9, 2022 by Spyros

[kgg]

1 hour ago, MtlBiker said:

Can anyone tell me what I was doing wrong or explain how I should be skiving these pieces? 

I think when you start to skive 90 degrees to a all ready skived edge you need to i) lift the pressor foot up ii) insert the piece past the pressor foot so the already skived edge section is just past the edge of bell knife and the feeder wheel then can catch the un-skived leather iii) lower the pressor foot and then start to skive otherwise you would double and possibly cause holes in that section.

kgg

[MtlBiker]

38 minutes ago, Spyros said:

Well I don't have that machine (yet) but just logically speaking: 

It looks like you skived the long edge, then you removed the piece and turned it 90 degrees to do the short edge, but then the first thing that entered the machine is the part that had already been skived before.

So you effectively double skived that bit, and because you started from an already very thin leather, double skiving it resulted in no leather.  You can see it in the photos, the parts that have holes is where the long and the short skive overlap.

I guess when you're working with such thin leather you just have to remember not to cross-skive the same bits.  There must be some technique to achieve that, I'm sure someone who owns a bell skiver will let us know.

Yes, that's exactly what I did, and I agree that's the problem.  But how to skive all the edges?  I need to learn how to do this.

 

[MtlBiker]

5 minutes ago, kgg said:

I think when you start to skive 90 degrees to a all ready skived edge you need to i) lift the pressor foot up ii) insert the piece past the pressor foot so the already skived edge section is just past the edge of bell knife and the feeder wheel then can catch the un-skived leather iii) lower the pressor foot and then start to skive otherwise you would double and possibly cause holes in that section.

kgg

I tried that on two of the pieces and still had a problem because the thin edge that I'd already skived seemed to get caught up in the feed wheel.  I'd have to go past the first skive by enough (and stop also before the end) and when I did that, it left a strip of unskived leather that I really do need to skive also.  Also at the end of the skive, because I didn't go all the way to the end/edge of the leather, it left some debris still attached and it was hard to pull the leather out.   I'm hoping that if this is the way to do it, I wouldn't have to try skiving that part by hand (I'm not yet at all good at doing that, especially with chrome tan).

Edited February 9, 2022 by MtlBiker

[chrisash]

Never used one of these machines but can you start the long skives a width of the skive into the leather, that way you never  skive twice

[MtlBiker]

59 minutes ago, chrisash said:

Never used one of these machines but can you start the long skives a width of the skive into the leather, that way you never  skive twice

I'm not quite sure I understand your suggestion.  Sorry. 

Let's see... if my skive width is 1", I should start (it cuts right to left as the leather is fed in from the left) skiving 1" in from the right edge?  And then do that all around, rotating my leather clockwise to get each edge.  Maybe that's the right way, but I found in my trials that it's next to impossible to start the skive at exactly the right place, and if you start it too soon, when you get around to that side again you end up skiving on already skived leather and it tears apart.  And if you start further over, there is unskived leather left when you finish.  And I haven't had any luck at all hand skiving chrome tan leather. 

I hope to hear advice from members who are experienced with bell skivers.  Once I learn what is the right approach, I guess it'll take practice practice practice to master.

 

[MtlBiker]

I just found a nice YouTube video by Myth Leather Co. that (among other things) shows how he does all four sides of a piece of leather.  Leather Bell Skiver | The Basics

Exactly what @chrisash suggested above... start skiving on the short ends first, then raise the presser foot and place the long side of the leather onto the skiver just at the point where the first short side skive has finished.  Then skive that side.  It doesn't seem to matter that the end of the skive hits the short end that's already been skived.  Nor does it seem to matter if he starts that long edge skive even a little bit on the first skive.

I'm going to experiment with this tonight and see how it works out for me.

Thanks guys!

 

[RockyAussie]

Raising and lowering that presser foot is something that you should hardly ever need to do. The first trick is to first on light soft weight leathers is to make sure that you have very little spring pressure applied to your feed stone. Back the hook off until it is in the last notch perhaps but also wind anticlockwise the pressure spring knob that tensions the feed stone for angle. These are often set way too tight. Secondly when you feed in something thick do a 1/2 way in corner off skive then when you put anything in hold a little way out at the start and hold it upward with your right hand so that the leather edge does not bite in or go under the blade. Often awhile it just happens without thinking about it. Practice on a lot of scrap. In Myth's Video above note at the end 40 minutes onward why it is good to have the vacuum happening on these type of leathers. This video I did awhile ago shows me using the technique I have described above. It was not made to show the procedure but if you study it hard you can see it.

Using a roller foot will also help a LOT.

[MtlBiker]

@RockyAussie - Thanks very much for your tips!  I don't have a roller presser foot (yet) for my new skiver but I've ordered a really cheap set from, believe it or not, Walmart! 

14 hours ago, RockyAussie said:

wind anticlockwise the pressure spring knob that tensions the feed stone for angle.

Remember, I'm a beginner with this... are you talking about reducing the angle of the feed stone, or just loosening the pressure?  And if you recommend rarely lifting the presser foot, how do you start the second skive past where the first skive was?  Or does that not matter?  I skived first the short edges.  Then went back to the long edge... are you saying that by holding the leather a certain way you can prevent the first already skived edge from being ripped up when it goes through the skiver again?  I was trying to start the long edge skive just after where the short edge skive was, which is why I tried lifting the presser foot and placing the leather at that point.  Without a roller presser foot what should I do?

And how do you skive a rounded piece of leather?  I found it almost impossible, when I tried, to turn the leather through the skiver to follow the curve.  Is there another trick?

I'm all for practicing, but want to be sure I'm practicing the correct techniques.

 

[RockyAussie]

8 hours ago, MtlBiker said:

Remember, I'm a beginner with this... are you talking about reducing the angle of the feed stone, or just loosening the pressure?

Just reduce the pressure. When it is too tight it makes it hard to get a clean start without cutting in too deep.(Hard veg will need to be a bit tighter)

 

8 hours ago, MtlBiker said:

And if you recommend rarely lifting the presser foot, how do you start the second skive past where the first skive was?

With good settings and a sharp blade it does not matter. Its quicker to rotate the job clockwise but sometimes it is safer to go anticlockwise. When you offer the skived edge into be skived you hold back away from the guide a little and curl up the edge so that you have a start on top of the bell. If you don't have a roller in that can be a bit harder to do as you have to overcome a fair amount of resistance at the start with a standard foot.

 

8 hours ago, MtlBiker said:

And how do you skive a rounded piece of leather?  I found it almost impossible, when I tried, to turn the leather through the skiver to follow the curve.  Is there another trick?

Your knife has to be very sharp and not have any rough feel at all. The pressure setting have to be just right for the leather being skived. Being able to go slow with the feed without the bell going slow as well does help. On Fortuna's and FAV's etc the bell runs at a constant speed always with the feed stone being independent from the bell speed. If you were using a router on wood would you be happy if the spindle slowed down when you slowed down? Many people have opted to put a separate motor drive on these 801 skivers to have the bell run separately. The new Cowboy versions in Australia are now selling with an independent motor set up for this reason.  There are a few tips that just may help in this video I did on circular skiving awhile ago-

The skived pieces above are for the wedding ring boxes I make which if you go to my profile and look in the about me section you can see the topic which shows how to make them.