needle size ?

[MtlBiker]

Ok, I’m still confused about needle sizes, particularly John James harness needles.  Here are two packages of needles, one labeled 001 and the other 1/0.  This size naming system is crazy!

You can see that both needles are different sizes in length and as near as I can measure the one on the left is 0.98mm in diameter and the right one is 1.06mm.

i know I can thread the bigger needle with Ritza Tiger 25 1.0 thread but I haven’t tried yet with the other needle.  

Why is this so darn complicated?

[jrdunn]

9 hours ago, MtlBiker said:

Ok, I’m still confused about needle sizes, particularly John James harness needles.  Here are two packages of needles, one labeled 001 and the other 1/0.  This size naming system is crazy!

You can see that both needles are different sizes in length and as near as I can measure the one on the left is 0.98mm in diameter and the right one is 1.06mm.

i know I can thread the bigger needle with Ritza Tiger 25 1.0 thread but I haven’t tried yet with the other needle.  

Why is this so darn complicated?

The 1/0 is the size larger than the 001(in JJ needles). I don't use Tiger thread specifically. I use Rhino. It seems less expensive but is similar. I can thread 1mm Rhino through the 001 if I wax it well. 1/0 is recommended for 1mm Tiger or Rhino(braided thread). I have trouble getting 1mm twist thread through a 2/0(next size up). I don't know but suspect that the sizing system came from wire gauge as it has a similar system.  JM2C.

[MtlBiker]

2 hours ago, jrdunn said:

The 1/0 is the size larger than the 001(in JJ needles).

Not clear on what you said... do you mean that 1/0 is the next size larger than 001, or just that it's larger?  Assuming (often dangerous to do) that of the seven sizes John James lists for their harness needles, the list would go from the smallest to the largest (or even vice-versa), 001 and 1/0 are completely at opposite ends of the range.

So far those are the only two sizes I have (my John James direct order for a pack of each size seems to have gotten lost in transit) and using Ritza Tiger 25 thread in 1.0 weight, I'm able to thread both those needles.  Which surprises me (as a novice).  I mean, if needles at each end of the size range work with 1.0 thread, it would seem they would work with the full range.  Unless as you might be implying by your comment, the 001 and 1/0 sizes are adjacent to each other in size.  Which makes this whole needle sizing thing even more confusing.  SIGH

 

[Klara]

You are completely right, the sizing system makes no sense whatsoever (nor does the John James website). I simply bought needles in each size, put them into a needle case (video with link to pattern here 

) so that two needles of each size are visible and I pick the pair that seems to go with the thread I want to use. And I generally pick the thread by colour (over the past year I've bought what made sense at the time) ... But you might find these guidelines helpful: https://www.decocuir.com/couture-cuir-fil-aiguille-choisir-guide-c1200x67488

[MtlBiker]

1 hour ago, Klara said:

You are completely right, the sizing system makes no sense whatsoever (nor does the John James website). I simply bought needles in each size, put them into a needle case (video with link to pattern here 

) so that two needles of each size are visible and I pick the pair that seems to go with the thread I want to use. And I generally pick the thread by colour (over the past year I've bought what made sense at the time) ... But you might find these guidelines helpful: https://www.decocuir.com/couture-cuir-fil-aiguille-choisir-guide-c1200x67488

Thanks very much, Klara.

And that needle case looks like a nice little project to practice stitching with.  I'll just have to modify it a bit because I ordered some of each of the 7 sizes John James offers.  Right now I'm working on trying to sharpen my awl and not yet doing a good job of it.  SIGH

 

[jrdunn]

23 hours ago, MtlBiker said:

Not clear on what you said... do you mean that 1/0 is the next size larger than 001, or just that it's larger?  Assuming (often dangerous to do) that of the seven sizes John James lists for their harness needles, the list would go from the smallest to the largest (or even vice-versa), 001 and 1/0 are completely at opposite ends of the range.

Mtlbiker,  Yes, 1/0 is the very next size up from 001.  004 is the smallest and 3/0 is the largest listed there.  That is why I suspect it is based on a "wire size". 004-0(or 1/0) is gauge, meaning higher number=smaller wire.  The "0" is sometimes listed as 0, 00, 000 instead of 1/0, 2/0, 3/0.  I don;t know why, it just is.  Bear in mind this is my understanding of it, not an absolute proclamation of the truth.  I have received my order from JJ and the relative sizes bear this out.   Jim

[fredk]

I went through my stock of needles and measured their diameters with my digital callipers. Then I wrote their size on the packet. It'll do as long as I remember to to put the needles back in the correct packet - which I don't

[MtlBiker]

1 hour ago, jrdunn said:

Mtlbiker,  Yes, 1/0 is the very next size up from 001.  004 is the smallest and 3/0 is the largest listed there.  That is why I suspect it is based on a "wire size". 004-0(or 1/0) is gauge, meaning higher number=smaller wire.  The "0" is sometimes listed as 0, 00, 000 instead of 1/0, 2/0, 3/0.  I don;t know why, it just is.  Bear in mind this is my understanding of it, not an absolute proclamation of the truth.  I have received my order from JJ and the relative sizes bear this out.   Jim

Geez, this needle sizing thing just doesn't make sense!  Please take a look at the screen shot I posted above (2-3 messages back) taken from the John James UK website showing the sizes available.  If what you are saying in this message is true (and I don't doubt you) then if you were to put those sizes in order from the smallest needle to the largest, what would that look like?

004, 003, 002, 001, 1/0, 2/0, 3/0????  Why would any company list sizes of anything in an apparently random order?

And am I correct that it appears sizes 1, 2 and 3 are all IDENTICAL?

Edited February 27, 2022 by MtlBiker
Added question about identical

[Klara]

35 minutes ago, MtlBiker said:

And am I correct that it appears sizes 1, 2 and 3 are all IDENTICAL?

It certainly looks like it on the JJ website, which is why I wrote that it doesn't make sense. Frankly, I believe it is a mistake by the person who wrote (or rather copied and pasted) the size guide. That said, at Decocuir they sell only 002 and 004 and then the x/0. Have a look - there is an English version (which I just can't see on a French system, so I can't link directly) - the page should answer some of your questions. 

[chuck123wapati]

20 hours ago, Klara said:

You are completely right, the sizing system makes no sense whatsoever (nor does the John James website). I simply bought needles in each size, put them into a needle case (video with link to pattern here 

) so that two needles of each size are visible and I pick the pair that seems to go with the thread I want to use. And I generally pick the thread by colour (over the past year I've bought what made sense at the time) ... But you might find these guidelines helpful: https://www.decocuir.com/couture-cuir-fil-aiguille-choisir-guide-c1200x67488

thats cool you could use the correct threads and spi for each needle division also as a way to remember.