Background And Bevels Just Don't Stay Down

[c2369zulu]

Hello All,

Not sure of this has been discussed very much or not, but it seems that I cannot for the life of me get my backgrounds and bevels to "stay down" after tooling. My carving is choppy and needs a lot more practice and this is bad enough, but this backgrounding and beveling issue just adds to my frustration. I don't know if the dye application is introducing too much moisture back into the leather causing it to swell back up or if I am not getting proper moisture content to begin with and the compression of the leather while tooling is not proper. Also, do you leave the swivel knife cuts open or smooth them back tight with the modeling spoon? I have seen this done by some and wondered if it affected the results. Any help would be great. Thanks........... Rory

[pete]

Hello All,

Not sure of this has been discussed very much or not, but it seems that I cannot for the life of me get my backgrounds and bevels to "stay down" after tooling. My carving is choppy and needs a lot more practice and this is bad enough, but this backgrounding and beveling issue just adds to my frustration. I don't know if the dye application is introducing too much moisture back into the leather causing it to swell back up or if I am not getting proper moisture content to begin with and the compression of the leather while tooling is not proper. Also, do you leave the swivel knife cuts open or smooth them back tight with the modeling spoon? I have seen this done by some and wondered if it affected the results. Any help would be great. Thanks........... Rory

Please post some fotos. It sounds as though you are making a common mistake. You are not cutting deeply enough and therefore have nothing to bevel(and flatten)

pete

[c2369zulu]

Hello Pete.

Thanks for responding and here is an example, even though I hate posting my carving. The background in the upper right areas shows best that it is nearly flush with the surrounding leather that should be in relief. Don't pay any attention to the poor carving and bad stamping outside of the beveling and backgrounding (just kidding, I need the criticism to see what else I am doing wrong ) I cant seem to get away from the choppy swivel knife cuts. I think I need to strop more...........Rory

[Bob Blea]

Looks like you may be carving your leather too wet. Also, are you re-wetting the leather a lot during carving, or maybe soaking it as you form it after carving?

Bob

[pete]

You might very well be carving too wet. And wetting too much during will bring all the nice relief out agin ruining your work.

If you have to re-wet, wring out a sponge well or MIST with a spray bottle and wait a few seconds. Wipe off standing water if it collects.

I think that you are not cutting deeply enough and your beveling isn't in the cut line on many places. Let the leather come to almost the original color before cutting. If you need to re-wet, make sure that its the leather that is too dry and not your knife that need stopping!

Try a few pieces of scrap of the same oz. leather and really get into it. Don't cut all the way through!- but cut a lot deeper than you have been- maybe 1/2 the thickness. Background when it's a tad bit drier.

Also know that for things like a holster where there is a bend involved, it will tend to push out the tooling a bit. DON"T carve a wallet, checkbook, etc where there is a sharp fold. It looks bad, but worse, it "breaks" the leather. Make your pattern such that it can accomodate (eliminate) folds and creases.

Hope this helps.

pete

[terrymac]

The biggest mistake you are making looks like you are beveling the wrong side of the cut. Bevel down the side where you are backgrounding. Appears to me you are doing the other side making it almost impossible to get your correct depth. Also, if leather is too wet, it won't form as it should. The moisture should be at a point that when you background, you get a burnishing (darkening) of the area tooled.

Hope this helps,

Terry

Edited September 18, 2012 by terrymac

[DoubleC]

C2 I would agree the leather is probably too wet instead of too dry. It was my first thought because I do the same thing all the time. I'll wet my leather, and get ready to use my stylus to copy a pattern on it and I never let it dry enough. Probably the best tool a leather worker owns is patience. So I end up copying the pattern and it's already starting to disappear before I'm done so I have to go back over it with the stylus again on the raw leather trying to save as much of the pattern as I can.....and I haven 't even gotten to swiveling or beveling yet. You'll see in thread after thread here you want the leather to be almost the original color you started with before you wet it before copying a pattern, cutting, beveling, matting, any of the things you are trying to do. After I'm pretty sure my pattern isn't going to disappear after the second trace I'm disgusted enough to let the leather dry properly. Same with a swivel knife or backgrounder. You want your cuts to be at least a third of the leather thickness but not on wet leather. That will compress the leather, make jagged edges and dull your knife quick. Beveling the same, if it needs rewet do like Pete said, spray it and get the extra up with a sponge, or just use a sponge and still get the excess up. You're not going to get those pretty burnish marks on wet leather and about all you'll be able to save on wet leather without redoing it is the cuts.

I'm just speaking from my personal experience of close to a year of doing this and STILL not letting my leather dry enough. Try taking a scrap of leather you haven't wet at all and background it and see how much more of it keeps it's shape than what you have. I really hope this helps.

Oh and the rest? Swivel cut marks, beveling? Just practice, no secrets to those. Cheryl

[Luke Hatley]

There is a Book at Tandy that will be of good use to you..."Craft Tools Tech Tips" by Al Stolhman.

[c2369zulu]

Hello again Everyone.

Thanks for all the responses. I know, I have shamed Will Ghormley on that holster . I think you guys are right. I have questioned myself on whether or not I have the proper moisture content (too much) after waiting. I do get the jagged torn edges a lot and not so much burnishing. I do try to wait until the original color returns, but may still be too soon each time. Must still be too spongy. Thanks for all the comments.

Luke-Thanks for the response. Yes, I have Tech Tips/Leather Tools/How to Carve Leather/ABC's of Leatherwork/How to Make Holsters/Etc.and several other Al Stohlman books, but not all of them. I love the drawings and illustrations...........Rory

[c2369zulu]

Bob, just re-read your post. Yes, I do tend to re-wet with a damp sponge while working and most of the time I go over the whole thing again each time I do. No, I do not wet form any holsters. Thanks again......Rory

[benlilly1]

I know for me...I always case my leather. I never just wet it with a sponge. With this method I'm sure of having a good outcome for stamping. Make sure it's back to the natural color. It may seem like it's too dry but in reality the center is just right to take the impressions. If it still feels cool to your face it's ready to go!! Good luck on your next project.

[c2369zulu]

Thanks for the response Benlilly1........Rory