Pfaff 335-17Bl

[dikman]

When I picked up my 211G166 today the guy showed me what else he had for sale. One was a Pfaff binding machine, which he no longer uses. Looking at it I figured it was a walking foot, but the feet looked quite peculiar to me as they were for binding. He said that he suspected this one might be hard to sell, and it was open to offers. It's a nice cylinder arm, but we were both wondering if the feet can be changed to a more conventional style and use it as a normal walking foot.

Anyone know? If so, what sort of leather/needle/thread would it be good for?

[dikman]

A bit more searching was inconclusive. It is a walking foot, but I don't think it's a compound feed i.e. the needle only goes up and down (I think)?

The reason I'm asking is that if it's usable to me I may be able to get it at a good price, as in its present form he doesn't see it selling easily and said to make him an offer. (Having just bought the other machine may help - plus he also rides a Moto-Guzzi too ).

Edited October 1, 2015 by dikman

[DrmCa]

It is a walking foot, no needle feed.

You'd need to get the regular feet for leather. I am not sure, but think you can keep the binder plate on it.

This page should give you an idea: https://www.college-sewing.co.uk/Pfaff335SewingMachineParts

[dikman]

Thanks, DrmCa. I'll have a word to him about it, I think. I don't really need it, but it's a nice looking little machine and if the price is right.......(I think I'm getting the collecting bug!!).

[dikman]

Got it! Or will have when I pick it up this afternoon. . He wanted $495, I offered $200 (because I didn't really need it) and we agreed on $250. I figure that's a bargain, as all I need to do (hopefully) is replace the feet - plus I'll have an edge binder if I ever need one.

[dikman]

This is the machine. While discussing the possibility of getting replacement feet at my local industrial machine place, he suggested just using the existing feet and slide the binder out of the way. The previous owner said he tried that, and it did work.

Looking at it, however, I reckon I need to make a new plate to replace the long one that has the binder mounted on it (pretty easy, as it's just a flat piece and aluminium should work) and I will also need a new needle plate. A bit trickier, but I should be able to work something out.

It came with a Consew clutch motor, which doesn't look too old, and a quick try before I dismantled it showed that it had pretty good slow speed control (unlike the motor that came with the Singer). I figure that fitting a smaller pulley will give me adequate control without having to resort to a servo motor.

Not at all bad for $250 .

[DrmCa]

This might be a slightly earlier model than mine, or the same - my handwheel is different.

A small pulley on any motor would feel like a big difference in stitching speed control.

Now you are going to need a regular feed dog, throat plate and feet.

Keep those binder parts - you may find buyers for them if you end up not needing them!

[Uwe]

It is a walking foot, no needle feed.

You'd need to get the regular feet for leather. I am not sure, but think you can keep the binder plate on it.

This page should give you an idea: https://www.college-sewing.co.uk/Pfaff335SewingMachineParts

So is it true that this 335 version does not have needle feed? That would seem very odd indeed.

I thought these Pfaff 335 machines all have compound feed, except on most of them the feed dog does not go down while moving forward (it just moves back and forth at the same height unless it's a specific sub-class with that drop feed dog feature)

[dikman]

I was just looking at it, and I reckon it is a compound feed. I set it to the largest stitch and turned it over by hand and the needle definitely moved back and forth along with the inner foot, and you're right about the feed dog, it oscillates back and forth in a horizontal plane. The reason I wasn't sure initially is that reading the documentation that I could find was a bit confusing, as it certainly gave the impression that it wasn't a compound feed.

I'm even happier with my purchase, now that I know it's a compound feed.

I've found a place in China that sells a set of "welt feet" for a reasonable price (I'm assuming that these are standard feet, but I'll have to do a bit more research first).

DrmCa - or anyone with a non-binder setup - could you post a couple of photos of the needle plate/feet area, please? This will give me an idea of just what I may need to do to restore mine to that condition. Even if I have to spend a bit for the bits, I think it will be worth it, considering how little I paid for it.

[jimi]

Hi There, looks like we have the same machines. the only difference at first glance is the thread tension unit and possibly the needle bar and the domed shuttle guard cover. (cant see your needle bar) this would be the 335-17B S=fabric setup and 335-17B L=leather setup differences??. your serial nº should be under the thread spool holder plate on top of the machine and on the front rim in front of you. this is the needle plate,feed dog and feet that came with the machine. i suppose they were the originals as they are pfaff made and look quite old. the binder foot and feed dog (non original)have the row of teeth which yours does not have? they could possibly have been ground down as they might have left marks on the leather. just a thuoght?? also it looks like your presser foot tension screw is missing?? or i am going blind jaja!

The non original binder parts are from http://www.kwokhing.com/.

Edited October 3, 2015 by jimi

[Uwe]

Also check out the Kwok Hing page for the Pfaff 335 for a nice overview of what's available for the Pfaff 335. The regular needle plate and feed dog set come in three sizes - regular, medium and small. The maximum stitch length you can use decreases as the opening in the needle plate gets smaller. Almost any of the presser feet on that page should work for you.

The "normal" non-binder setup would include the 91-158 206-034 needle plate and 91-059 229-04 feed dog set:

and the KP335W presser feet:

For the arm cover plate, you may be able to just remove the guide fingers and threaded bits that are attached now to make it flat with nothing sticking up.

The Kwok Hing parts are available from various resellers, or directly from the manufacturer if you get their attention.

Edited October 3, 2015 by Uwe

[gottaknow]

The first thing I noticed was that the needle was in backwards. (always in troubleshooting mode).

Good find, and deal!

Regards, Eric

[SARK9]

This is all quite interesting to me because of a recent acquisition- a Mitsubishi CU-865-22.... Which looks for all the world like someone grafted a later model Singer 211U156* to to the lower portion of a Pfaff 335, which sort of ties in to the two machines mentioned in the original post.

My machine doesn't seem to have a whole lot of info circulating in the wild, so it makes me wonder how much stuff from these other machines it resembles will interchange.

-DC

Edited October 3, 2015 by SARK9

[dikman]

Great stuff, fellas, lots of good info here.

Sark9, that (lower) cylinder arm definitely appears to be identical to mine, right down to the shape of the cover plate and various screw holes. Your machine looks to be in excellent condition, btw.

Eric, that's because I took the needle out to check the size and obviously put it in backwards (just to see if anyone is paying attention....).

Jimi, you're right, the tension screw is missing (hadn't got that far to realize it!), but I should be able to find something suitable from my spares. Thanks for the great photos. The feed dog doesn't look as though it ever had teeth, if someone ground them off they did an awfully neat job on it! I found the serial no. this morning - 4994398. How does this relate to yours?

Uwe/jimi, that Kwok Hing site looks like where I need to go.

Photo of the needle bar. Does that help?

[jimi]

Hi dikman , yes your machine is 3 years newer, here is a pdf of the parts for the old class machines, dont know if you have this already?? you can look up the nº of your feed dog to see if it is the same as the one here. if it was not ground off then it should not have the long opening to the left on the needle plate (i think), that would be where the row of teeth move backwards and forwards??335 H3 Subclass Old C.pdf. yes thanks for the pic of the needle bar. what is the diameter of your needle bar? the presser foot tension screw is not metric, so you might have to scrummage around a bit to find one?

Edited October 4, 2015 by jimi

[DrmCa]

I stand corrected! Pfaff 335 is a needle feed machine after all.

Apparently I never looked ad the needle movement from 90 degree angle yet!

Looking for a "slap on the head" smilie... Here!

[dikman]

Thanks for that list, jimi, it's been added to the growing collection of paperwork for this machine. I can't measure the needle bar yet, as both of my digital calipers have a flat battery!!!

The part numbers on mine are - feed dog 46497B (no Pfaff marking), inner foot Pfaff 5.0B, 4C629 and outer foot Pfaff 8.0 A/B, 40432. I've attached a photo of the feed dog, and looking at it under strong magnification it may have been ground down, although why they would go so far down if they only wanted to remove the teeth I don't know.

The part no. on the feed dog may mean it's a non-genuine part? The other part no's, while Pfaff, don't appear to line up with their current numbering system.

I'm thinking that I might drop into the sewing machine place in town sometime, as he mentioned sourcing generic feet, and see what he can come up with (looks like I'll need the inner/outer feet, feed dog and needle plate). I'll make up a new cover plate for the arm, as the two threaded pins on the existing one have been brazed on, so I'll leave that intact.

Edited October 5, 2015 by dikman

[dikman]

I tried it out today, with a small (45mm) pulley on the motor, but it's still too difficult to control for my needs. I'll either have to make a pulley reduction thingy, or buy another servo motor. Part of the problem, I think, is the pulley on the handwheel is too small but it won't be easy to fit a bigger one.

Edited October 5, 2015 by dikman

[SARK9]

There are several makes and models of servo motors available for under $130/150. They cost about the same as a speed reducer pulley set or a variable frequency drive.....I've only had two clutch motors that were really controllable, and they were still not as friendly as a decent servo. I personally find even the quietest clutch motor's humming a bit... annoying.

-DC

[dikman]

My last servo cost $250 ($205 without the needle sync) and that was pretty much the best value that I could find (out of China). My pulley reducer cost $0, because I used what I already had. I suspect that I'll end up buying another servo, however, as experience has shown me that even with a pulley reducer clutch motors can be a pain.

[dikman]

I decided that the smallish pulley (3") on the handwheel really had to go! So after a bit of messing around on the lathe with one of the alloy pulleys that seem to be commonly available for sewing machines (in this case a 4 1/4") I managed to get a bigger working pulley to fit on the handwheel. This made quite a difference, although still not up to the control of a servo, of course. This gives me a ratio of 2.5:1, (the original must have been close to 1:1) and I reckon that if I couple this to a servo I should have excellent slow speed control.

Edited October 6, 2015 by dikman

[dikman]

Uwe, thanks for those part numbers, I managed to source the two feet locally (generic,about Aus$28 each, but the guy said I wouldn't want to know the Pfaff price!) but they couldn't help with the feed dog/needle plate. As you suggested, I contacted Kwok Hing directly and they said they would send me an invoice (shipping is dearer than the parts!). I have a feeling that with these parts, and once I get the speed under control, this is going to be a very nice machine to use.

[dikman]

The mailman dropped my Kwok Hing needle plate and feed dog off today. The feed dog didn't quite fit (!), but a bit of work on the belt grinder fixed that. I had already mounted a servo to it, and coupled with an 8" pulley on the head it crawls along nicely. I ran a piece of 1/4" leather through it and it punched the holes without any effort, so figured I'd better try some stitching. I loaded some #69 white thread on the bobbin and ran some brown #69 through the needle. The machine came with a size 21 fabric needle, as it had been used, with #69 thread, for binding some sort of nylon/cordura material so I just used that needle. Max stitch length, one layer of 9 oz veg and the stitches looked great. I shortened the stitch length and ran it through and again it looked good. Next thing was to double the thickness - and this was where I came undone! The second scrap piece I used tapered down to a narrow end, it started stitching well and then "twang", one busted needle! (I'm getting quite good at breaking needles).

The problem was, I think, that I got too close to the edge and the lack of support, combined with me feeding the leather pushed the needle slightly out of alignment. No big deal, though, as until it broke it was sewing well. It went through 5/16" of leather as though it wasn't there and the stitches looked pretty good too. Reverse feed also worked fine, putting the needle right into each hole. This looks like it's going to be a very nice machine to use, and I'm feeling pretty good about my purchase.

Earlier I had referred to it as a compound feed, but I guess because it has a smooth feed dog that really makes it a needle feed?

[DrmCa]

Where did you get 8" pulley for the head?

I think you are pushing it with 2x9oz.

[dikman]

The pulley is from one of my "bits and pieces" boxes - the one for pulleys and bearings. As to where it originally came from, I've got no idea! It's fairly heavy cast steel, so gives a bit of a flywheel effect. When I removed the existing pulley/handwheel it left a 1/2" shaft, which just happened to be the size of this pulley (I have a nice alloy one that I intended to use - same size - but it has a large centre hole and I would have to make a sleeve for it. This seemed easier). Might look a bit odd, but it works.

As for pushing the limits size-wise with the leather, yep, I'm under no illusions about what I'll be able to do with the machine. It's more a matter of experimenting to find its limits. It has no problems pushing a needle through the thick stuff, but actually sewing a stitch may be a different matter. If I can use 138 thread through slightly thinner stuff then I'll be happy with that.