Wizcrafts

Convenience

Gregg; I was just going to post about you being able to do this. Ya beat me to the punch Pilgrim.

The CB2500 sews up to 7/16", with bottom feed only. It is well capable of tensioning #346 thread, top and bottom. Using #277 would be perfectly fine for horse gear. The horse will not complain about tooth marks on the bottom of the headstall. However, if that becomes a problem, you can use a spoon to smooth them out. I would assume you will be using English Bridle Leather. It is very easy to smooth out tooth marks on either the grain or pasted flesh sides. OTOH, if you are going to be sewing right at 3/8 inch, or even higher, the Chandler and Consew will be maxed out at a dangerous height. You would be better off with a Juki LU-1508 NH, which has very high lift and uses system 190 Pfaff needles. Their bobbins hold about double the capacity of a standard industrial bobbin. This machine sews up to 7/16 inch with #207 thread. They can be had for about $2600, plus or minus, depending on the motor and shipping charges. If you begin sewing leather projects reaching or exceeding 1/2 inch, go back to the drawing board and look for an affordable 441 or Adler type machine, or a Union Lockstitch needle and awl machine. My ULS sews 7/8 inch, with any size thread.

That's easy: 800 RPM at the machine.That equals about 13 stitches per second. Keep it very well oiled if you sew at that speed on a regular basis. The same speed applies to the Cowboy 3500 and 5500, Cobra Class 3 and 4, and all other brands of 441 machines. Due to vibration issues, I would limit the top speed to 10 stitches per second on the big stitchers, or 600 RPM at the machine.

It needs to be re-dipped every so often, as the coating eventually starts to peel off with use. It is not a permanent application. Just buy smooth presser feet from a knowledgeable dealer. Everything I said in this topic is based on the understanding that you have a Singer 111w155 and not a Rex or some other brand that only comes with tooth feet and has double feed, not triple feed.

If your machine is indeed a Singer 111w155, I promise you that there are literally dozens of different presser foot sets available for it. It is the basis for all other upholstery grade walking foot machines, most of which use the exact same feet as the Singer 111w155. My walking foot machine uses the same type of feet as yours. I have at least a dozen different presser foot sets. The only ones I bought with teeth are for installing zippers. I have left toe, right toe, wide and narrow double toe, pipping sets of all sizes, edge guide sets and even a binder set, all without teeth on the bottom. You need to call Bob Kovar, at Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines, at: 866-362-7397, ASAP and order you some various types of smooth presser feet, various needles and decent thread. The nerve of that dealer! Some people's children!

I only use smooth bottom presser feet when sewing leather. Why did you buy a set with teeth? The Singer 111w155 is a triple feed walking foot machine. It needs no help from teeth on top to feed the material.

Left twist, Barbour's Irish Linen, run through liquid wax, or bonded polyester work best. You can also use bonded nylon, if it isn't too springy. This means avoiding most black thread, as the dye hardens the thread. If you will be sticking to white, light brown and natural, any of those three types will work fine. FWIIW, I use bonded nylon most of the time in my Union Lockstitch, which is the younger brother of the Randall machines. Mine has a rotary shuttle, as opposed to your oscillating forward/backward motion shuttle.

Sheri; When I decided to get back into leather work and sewing, I started from scratch. The first few machines I get were home style old iron machines that were inadequate. I finally saved enough money to buy a really nice National walking foot machine from a local company. When I got the machine it was setup for vinyl upholstery, with a large motor pulley for high speed operation. It had an old 1/3 HP clutch motor. After fighting with it for a month I bought a SewPro 500GR from Bob Kovar (Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines). The original belt was too long, so I ordered a shorter belt from Bob. That motor is so easy to control at any speed that it makes my head spin thinking how it used to be. I set it to full speed on the knob, then use my toe position on the pedal for whatever speed I need, even down to 1 stitch every few seconds when sewing around tips of belts. On the straight-aways I floor it and sew at 10 stitches per second. The only changes I made to handle pulling heavy thread up into veg-tan leather was to replace the upper tension beehive spring with a heavier coil spring. The top pressure springs were already strong enough to hold down 3/8 inch of leather as the needle ascends. When I came across a job that exceeded the clearance of the feet, I routed out some iron on the back of the head and changed the needle system, and it now is capable of sewing almost 1/2 inch of leather, or webbing, depending on which presser feet I use. That machine was my only machine for one solid year. I have since acquired several more, including a Cowboy CB4500 cylinder arm heavy stitcher and a Union Lockstitch harness stitcher. Still, that flat bed National is the most versatile machine in my collection.

I set my motor at full speed; 3800 rpm. The servo motor is still controllable enough to slow down with my tippy toe, to 1 stitch per second. 3800 rpm at the motor, with a 2" pulley, divides by 4.5 via the large 9" pulley on the speed reducer. The small 2" pulley on the reducer feeding the large 8" pulley on the machine gives another 4:1 reduction, for a total of about 8.5:1 reduction. 3800/8.5 = 447 rpm. 447/60 = ~7 stitches per second, maximum. To sew at this speed I had to replace both belts with almost perfectly true belts that didn't have sideways motion. I also loosened the motor bolts and repositioned it for minimum side pull on the belt to the reducer. I also moved the reducer inward, toward the machine, to get the machine pulley directly inline with the small pulley on the reducer. Without those modifications the machine shook everything off the pedestal table at full speed. Now it just shakes a little. I purchased a 64 inch belt at the same time that I replaced the 39 and 58 inchers. By hooking the 64" belt to the middle pulley on the reducer I can sew at about 15 stitches per second. The shaking is only slightly worse than at 7.4 spi. The trueness of the belts and alignment between the motor, reducer and machine pulleys makes all the difference in the world, if you need to sew fast. Also, I tightened down every nut and bolt on the pedestal base and table.

Most upholsters use a flat bed walking foot machine, with reverse and a large bobbin, like the Consew 206RB-5 This type of machine definitely sews 3/8 inch of material, with up to #207 bonded thread. The needles available go up to a number 25, which allows you to sew with #207 thread top and bottom. The springs are heavy duty enough to properly tension #207 thread and to hold down the presser feet as the needle lifts with the bobbin thread, through 3/8 inch of webbing or leather. Lesser machines can't hold down such dense materials. The 206RB-5 has a really long maximum stitch length of about 3.5 per inch. The Chandler 406RB is the twin brother, bought out and now made by the same company, for a little cheaper price.

The Chandler 406 is a younger brother of the Consew 206 series. Both are made by the same company. The Chandler costs about $200 less than the Consew.

I think not. Ask Bob Kovar, he may know if that is doable.

On which machine? I read all the time about first time sewers buying a 441 clone and they learn to sew on the first day after setting it up. Others take longer to overcome newbie issues. The medium duty 227 type machines are equally easy to learn to operate and are more flexible due to the large number of different presser feet and attachments available for them, which are not made for the 441s.. With any of these machines the most important lesson is to firmly hold back both threads before you begin to stitch. Don't let go until you either cross back over the first stitch, or have moved on about 3 stitches. The second most important lesson is to learn where every oil hole is and keep oil in them at all times. The third most important lesson is to not sew your fingers! If you were asking about my Union Lockstitch Machine, I will gladly teach you how to operate and adjust it when you come to pick it up. A video camera that records audio would be a big help to you.

A standard walking foot machine that specifies a maximum foot lift of 9/16 inch cannot sew that much. You need at least 1/8 inch free space for the feet to alternate up and down, if not more. This limits the actual sewing thickness to 3/8 inch. Conversely, if the machine specifies it sews 3/8 to 7/16 inch, the foot lift figure will be at least 1/2 inch, to 5/8 inch. There are virtually no machines in the common market place that sew one inch. The only exceptions are the huge long arm flat bed machines used in the tent making, buffing wheel, and car wash cloth industries. Few of them can sew 1 inch. You need to go back to the drawing board and reduce the thickness by at least 1/4 inch. This would allow you to use a 441 clone, either flat bed or cylinder arm, which can sew a little over 3/4 inch. If you truly need to sew one solid inch, consider getting a Campbell High Lift needle and awl stitcher. It should only set you back about 7 grand, plus or minus.

Another thing I forgot to mention is that I got the 35 yards figure from a company selling pre-wound bobbin loads. The actually said 36 yards, but I allowed for loss from bobbin winder misalignment. Your bobbin loads could be higher or lower, depending on how perfectly the bobbin winder lays the threads into the bobbin core.

No. It means you might have as much as 35 yards of thread wound on a bobbin. In actual use the bobbin winder might stop well before than amount has been loaded. Every stitch pulls the bobbin thread up into the leather, around the top thread in a knot, then back down. This takes up as much length as the actual stitches, if not more. So, if you are sewing a 4 foot long belt, that makes about 8 feet (2 sides) x 2 for the knots = ~16 feet of bobbin thread. This amount gets worse as the thickness increases, because the threads are pulled in even farther. Basically, considering that you lose thread each time you finish one piece and start another one, and that the actual amount of thread needed is twice the length being sewn (for each side), you might get 9 to 10 yards of two sided 8 ounce belts sewn per G bobbin load, using #69 thread. That would be cut in half for #138 thread. If the leather is thinner, you could sew farther on a bobbin load.

If the machine uses a G bobbin, common in Singer 111s, it should hold about 35 yards of #69 thread, or half that amount of #138.

Here is a medium duty cylinder arm walking foot machine that sews up to 3/8 inch, with #138 thread. I have been able to sew with 1/8 inch with both a Cobra Class 4 and a Cowboy CB4500. I changed to a #19 needle and used #92 thread. While these machines sewed 8 ounces, they didn't do so without feeder issues. You see, the feed dog slots are very long and wide, to accommodate the equally huge feed dog. Soft, narrow leather straps may get pushed down into the slot in the throat plate, in front of the feed dog and sometimes, into the hole in the feed dog. The medium duty machine above has a much narrower feeder and plate cutout. It also has much shorter needles that don't flex as much as the long type 7x3 needles used in the 441 clones. That said, I have learned that it really depends on what you are sewing on the 441, with small thread and needles, that can affect the outcome. I have no trouble hemming the cuffs on jeans, or leather coat sleeves, using #92 thread and a #19 needle on a big 441. But, trying to use it to sew the tip of a chap leather belt is a struggle. You mentioned that you might look for a needle and awl machine. There is no Union Special needle and awl machine; they make garment sewing machines. There is a Union" Lockstitch" needle and awl machine. I happen to have my Union Lockstitch machine for sale.

Since I originally posted this machine for sale I have modified the existing parts to get it to sew 7/8 inch. Any further lift will require a custom made presser foot and looper arm. I have created a web page with the description of this Union Lockstitch machine for sale with lots of photos. I have been asked what it will take to get it to sew one inch. It will require having a custom presser foot and matching thread looper machined. I intend to get a quote from a nearby machine shop for having these parts made. If the modifications are successful, the cost of the new parts will be added to the selling price. It will be the only one like it around! If anybody is interested in buying the machine now, before I invest in more parts, call me at 810-422-5301, or contact me via the forum PM system. The machine is still offered as cash and carry from Flint, Michigan, for $2700, as it currently is (with 7/8" lift). Shipping from Toledo (Ohio) Industrial Sewing Machines may be arranged for distant buyers. I don't know what that will cost. They are about 112 miles from me.

The owner of the Randall R132 belt cutter has asked me to lower the asking price again, to $3500. The description and photos are found here Anybody wishing to purchase the machine should call Doug Monroe, at: 810-732-4907, between noon and 6 PM, Eastern Time.

The machine specs call for a G bobbin. If you actually were sent a G bobbin and it doesn't fit into the bobbin case, somebody must have modified the hook. Or, maybe you were sent some other bobbin, like a class 15. Measure the diameter and height of the space inside the bobbin case and post the dimensions here.

Read my pinned article about The type of sewing machine you need to sew leather Next, settle on either a flat bed or cylinder arm machine to start with. Note, that you can buy or have a table attachment made to cover a cylinder arm, turning it into a partial flat bed machine for wallets, vests, chaps, belts, etc. A flat bed is always flat. Brands I like best are (alphabetically): Adler, Chandler, Cobra, Consew, Cowboy, Juki, Seiko, Singer (and the Japanese National 300N, if you can find one). Most folks on this forum are using machines they purchase from dealers who are members of Leatherworker.net. Those dealers offer after-sale support you cannot get from most eBay sellers. If you buy a sewing machine from a seller on Craigslist, you are totally on your own if you encounter problems. I have and use the following brands of industrial sewing machines: Cowboy, National, Singer and Union Lockstitch. Two are flat beds, two have cylinder arms and one a semi-post machine. In the past I have also owned Pfaff and Juki sewing machines. I have friends who own a Consew and love them. My best friend, for whom I do sewing when needed, owns an Adler and a Cobra. I also want to clarify that the machines sold on eBay as "industrial strength" are as strong as any home machine can be, but are not leather sewing machines. I own four home style sewing machines. Two are old iron Singers. Will they sew leather? Yes, about 1/8 to 3/16 of an inch, but only with #69 thread. Will they feed a large piece of leather, without ganging up on stitches, or separating the layers? NO.The only way they sew multiple layers inline is if if they are stapled, glued or taped together first. They need help feeding leather through the feed dogs, because the flat fixed presser foot drags against the top layer. As a result, stitches vary in length. To properly sew leather, with say a middle weight thread like #138, requires an actual industrial sewing machine, preferably with triple feed. These are called compound feed walking foot machines. My article linked to above explains all of this.

May I suggest that you open a new topic for your future questions, rather than using this pinned topic?

It uses system 135x16 leather point and 135x17 regular point needles, available wherever industrial sewing machines are sold. There have been plenty of posts on this forum showing needle vs thread sizes. Or, you can consult the needle and thread chart on Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines. This is a light duty walking foot machine and is suitable for the soft leather you will be sewing. The bobbins are standard industrial G size, best suited to thin thread. Your machine can handle up to #138 bonded nylon or bonded polyester thread. If the bobbins run out too soon, try using #92 in the bobbin and #138 on top. Or just #92 top and bottom. The 226r-1 only yields 5 stitches per inch, which is fine for seat covers. If you can't afford a servo motor and the machine runs too fast for you, buy a smaller motor pulley and a shorter v-belt to match. Keep the machine oiled between uses. Don't try to use thread heavier than #138, nor work thicker than 3/8 inch. Here is a topic about the same machine, from Feb 2012