Wizcrafts

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That was a great explanation. However, the OP is not sewing lather. He is sewing webbing. Still, the same principals apply. To overcome the resistance of the dense and thick material, you need more tension on the top thread. This can be achieved both by tightening the beehive upper tension spring, and/or by wrapping the top thread around any posts on the top of the machine, ahead of the upper tension disks. While increasing the needle size does help bring the knots up in leather, it probably won't have as much impact in webbing. But, try it anyway. If you are trying to sew with #138 bonded thread, using a #22 needle, substitute a #23 needle. It can't hoit! If you think the bobbin spring is too tight, loosen it a tad. It should feed smoothly, without any herky-jerky motion. There needs to be a modicum of bobbin tension to ensure consistency of the bottom stitches and knots. You balance the top tension as needed, with the adjuster, or extra wraps around posts.

Wait till DoubleC sees this. She'll love your website. I'm there already. Nice idea.

Unless you buy a walking foot machine, you are going to be disappointed with a bottom feeder when you try to sew medium or hard temper leather, or anything thicker than about 3/16 inch. The straight stitch tailoring machines don't have strong enough pressure and tensioning springs. The take-up lever is not built for pulling tough thread up into resistant material like veg-tan leather. These machines have light moving parts in order to gain higher speed operation, which is preferred by tailors and seamstresses, or garment factories. Sewing 1/4 inch or more of veg-tan or bridle leather requires either a very heavy duty bottom feed machine (45k type, like GA5-1 or CB2500) with aggressive teeth, or a jump foot-needle feed (e.g. Ferdinand Bull, Adler 105, Union Lockstitch, Campbell-Randall), or preferably, a triple feed walking foot machine (from beefed up upholstery grade, to Adler 205, to Juki TSC 441 or 441 clone). The larger machines can sew with bonded nylon thread exceeding #207. Upholstery grade walking foot machines max out at #207 or less (some can only tension up to #138 thread). A 441 clone or Adler 205 can handle up to #415 thread. A Union Lockstitch or Campbell-Randall machine could care less about the size of the thread, as long as the awl punches a big enough hole for the barbed needle. You need to define your leather sewing parameters; like thickness, temper of leather, size of thread, stitch length, type of feed, then go after the best machine you can afford that will match your specs.

This is a light duty, straight stitch tailoring machine, meant for sewing cloth. It will sew light weight leather, using #69 bonded nylon thread, with a #18 needle. You might need to change the presser foot to a roller or Teflon foot to allow sticky leather and vinyl to feed evenly. You may also need to change the feed dog and throat plate to a heavy duty set.

Sure. Look around online, or call our member-dealers, for a Singer 111w155, which was one of the first triple feed, walking foot machines in mass production. It has the poor mans' reverse you like (spin the work 180 degrees) and they're built to last about a hundred years. Equipped with a standard industrial bobbin, these machines can sew with up to #138 bonded nylon, or bonded polyester thread. They use the most common walking foot needle system 135x16 and 17. If you look hard you can find one of these machines in good working condition for about $350 to $400, with a 1/2 HP clutch motor. Toss in another $165 for a Sew Slow servo motor and you're good to go on vinyl and leather upholstery, cloth, denim, drapery, jackets, et al. The only thing they are not good for is delicate work. They will tear up any very light weight cloth. But, you can hem jeans all day, sew seat covers, make vests, etc. They don't lift as high as modern walking foot machines, so you'll be limited to seams not exceeding about 5/16 inch. These are great piping machines for 1/4 inch thin piping and are a typical first machine purchased by starting upholsterers. Your second machine might be a Consew 206RB-something, or a Juki LU something. Baby steps...

Bottom line: you need a compound feed walking foot machine, with a servo motor. End of story.

I can't read it, but the model number is on the oval brass tag under the stitch length lever.

You've probably knocked the shuttle out of time.Does your machine have a push button on the bed, near the inside bobbin cover? If so, unthread the needle, then press and hold down on the button and turn the handwheel toward you until you hear and feel a distinct click. That would be the shuttle returning to the timed position, or close to it.

Here is a machine that matches your specifications. It costs about $1149 with a servo motor, plus shipping. There is absolutely nothing new available in the price range you specified. If you can't afford to pay over $500 for a walking foot machine, you will have to find one used in the Marketplace section of the forums, or on Craigslist.

I am tired of discussing motors for now. Let's not worry about what-ifs, until they actually occur. Get to know your motor and machine and learn to sew well with it. Get the knots in the middle and keep the right distance from the edges. If the motor you got with your Pfaff has not been over-used, or abused, it may have years of life in it. If it was good enough for the original owner, who almost cried when he sold it to you, it will be good enough for you.

You may or may not have to burn in a new clutch motor to get the same ease of control you have with the old motor. Some people sand the clutch disks, others may spray on a light lube, to help glaze the fresh surface. Eventually, the clutch will behave the way your old one does. Some clutch motors will feather smoothly right out of the box. With a clutch motor you have an adjuster nut and bolt on the output end of the casing. Tightening it brings the clutch action on sooner and vice-versa. You can back off the bolt to have more free play before the clutch engages. As the clutch wears in, you can screw in the adjuster bolt to compensate.

Chimera; The short effective range of travel on the current generation of servo motors is a manufacturing problem. We can try to trick out the control levers, but that is just masking the real problem: poor light beam controls, or components.that are out of the design tolerance range, or are just marginal. It wouldn't be so bad of a problem if there were trimpots that the dealers could adjust to fine tune the range of motion to the widest range with lots of slow speed control. Unfortunately, that is not how they are made at this time. Right now, these OEM motors are like a box of chocolates: ya don't know whatcher gonna ge-et.

Nah, it's just that until you get foot-on experience with the various motors, you aren't in a good position to make suggestions to those who are having problems adapting to their motors. From your first description of your new machine, you won't have any trouble feathering the clutch for slow speeds. If you find that your motor is a little weak when you sew the thickest load it can clear, move up to the next higher motor in horsepower, or install a smaller motor pulley, or install a speed reducer pulley system. One advantage your clutch motor gives that many servo motors don't provide, is a physical brake that releases before the clutch engages. Releasing the brake allows you to freely hand-wheel the machine for precision sewing around strap tips, turnarounds, buckles and dee rings, etc. There are some servo motors that have a brake, like the SewPro 500, which is now sold as the Toledo Sew Slow. Touching the pedal releases the brake, so one can freewheel the machine. It has a knob on the back that limits the top speed, as mentioned by Ferg, in his reply #7. There is another family of brake equipped servos that I recently discovered, but have not been able to test yet. They also have a single knob to limit the top speed, rather than the awkward up/down push buttons and their strange sequences to set startup and top speeds. If you find that the motor tends to get away sometimes, put a tennis ball under the floor pedal. The squish-able ball provides resistance that can help you control the motor. It's an old trick I learned in an industrial sewing machine shop where I worked for a while. They used that trick with new sewers, especially if they bought high speed Jukis. When I say high speed, I ain't kiddin' Pilgrim. I'm talkin' 3000 stitches per minute, flat out. By comparison, leather sewers usually gear their machines down to a top speed of about 360 to 600 stitches per minute. The big 441 clones are geared down by as much a 9:1, meaning a 3500 RPM motor actually turns the machine at only 400 stitches per minute, or about 6.5 stitches per second, top speed. With no releasable brake, these machines are very hard to turn by hand for single stitching. Stick with your clutch motor until it needs a clutch reline, or until it burns out. Then worry about a replacement. If you find you need more precise low speed control, contact our dealers to see what servos they have that will drop into the three holes in your table, and have the control lever on the bottom of the motor. My SewPro (aka: Sew Slow) is built that way. Something else you may want to consider is that if you are sewing mostly nylon webbing collars and leads, you can go really fast without burning the material or thread. Leather heats up the needle markedly at high speeds. I often have smoke coming from the needle as I sew the edges on production strap runs. Last tip: Get a swing-away, or drop down edge guide for your machine.

Chimera; You have a lot to learn about motors. Baby steps... Clutch motors have been the standard of the needle trade for the best part of a century. They are made in various configurations, like 2 phase 110v, 3 phase 220v, 1725 RPM and 3450 RPM. Most garment machines used in factories are equipped with 3450 RPM motors. Most motors sold for personal use, or for use on walking foot machines are 1725 RPM. Walking foot machines usually have a 1/2 HP 1725 RPM motor as standard equipment. Pulleys are available in diameters from under 2" to 5" or bigger. To add to the confusion, most of the older motors have a 3/4 inch bore, but some have a 5/8" shaft. Servo motors are built in a variety of drive systems and with varying shaft diameters. I have some with a 1/2 or 9/16 inch bore and others with 5/8 inch. You need to spend some time actually using you motor and machine before jumping to conclusions about the characteristics of this or that design. Furthermore, the motor/reducer systems used on the 441 clones are completely different than anything you are yet familiar with. You cannot accurately comment of these motors until you have actually used one or more for a period of time. Each one acts slightly differently from the others. Some have fabulous low end control, while others have a hair trigger between off and full on. It sounds like you got really lucky with your machine and motor. If the clutch wears down you can buy a replacement brake or clutch, or replace the entire motor with either a new clutch, or new servo motor. Then, you'll have a learning curve with the rebuilt or replaced motor.

I've added some new details to my post #51. If you read it when I first posted, please re-read it.

Ken; Read my post #49. I talked you up as having made good points at the beginning of it. I also disclaimed being an expert. I'm not looking to get into fights here; heck, we've never even met. Everything I post is either my opinion, or from my experience; mostly the latter. The dealers and their paid mechanics are the experts.

Steve; I wish that we could produce motors right here, in the USA, for a reasonable cost. This is so frustrating. I have ideas, but no money to try them out. It sucks being me ;-( Here is what I did to Steve's motor to improve its controllability. First, I set the chain from the pedal so it had only a little slack. Next, I turned the adjuster screw until it was just in the off position, then backed it off another half turn. I had to remove the rubber tip to accomplish this. I also set the top speed to about 3000 rpm, to reduce the shaking of the machine. This shaking was actually causing some skipped stitches. The next item that made a difference was loosening the nut on the speed reducer, turning the wheel by hand to set the belt in a happy place pull-wise, then tightening it again. This allows me to handwheel around turns, where the motor is too touchy. It also reduces the strain on the motor and allows me to have better control at slow speeds than was the case when it was very tight. I really want to open up one of these motors and see what can be done to fine tune the light baffle. I play steel guitar professionally and use a light beam volume pedal. There is a mechanical adjustment inside my pedal that allows me to control the off and full on settings. It does this by repositioning the variable density light filter, which is mounted on a piece of hard wood. Yes, it's Hillbilly engineering, but it works flawlessly! That device will gracefully change my volume from zero to 100% over a wide range of easily controlled foot movement. It even has a trim pot to set the sensitivity. So, I know that these things can be done. My SewPro 500 motors have what I think is capacitive, or proximity drive, activated by the big lever under the motor. As one's foot pedal pulls down on the lever, the crank on the inside moves one electrically charged piece of metal towards another that is on the back of the motor (stator?). As it moves closer, the unit begins to spin. At a certain point it is physically stopped and reaches maximum velocity. The two pieces are separated by a thin dielectric insulator, to prevent arcing or meltdown. The starting position of the moving element is adjustable by a long hex-head screw, There is a brake that is also adjustable internally.

Ken brought up some really good points and suggestions. Newbies would do well to read through his post, #44, in this thread. I never claimed to be an expert. I am just an experienced sewer-rebuilder, with some time as a worker bee in an industrial sewing machine store (Juki machines galore). I've put in hundreds of hours sewing everything from cloth, to vinyl, to leather. I have rebuilt many sewing machines, including two Union Lockstitch machines and gone through many machines that were supposed to sew leather, but did so poorly. Until recently, all of my machines had clutch motors. I learned to feather the clutch to sew slowly and can still do so. I can adjust the action on a clutch motor to allow the range of free motion I prefer, where it releases the brake, but before it engages the drive. Most of the servo motors lack any such freewheeling/braking adjustments. The exception is the SewPro 500GR (now sold as the "Toledo Sew Slow") motors sold by Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines. I currently own two of those motors and have adjusted to behave much like clutch motors (release brake-engage slow-go quick-go fast). It's too bad they are (currently) a little under powered for a long arm 441 or Adler! I have a Cowboy CB4500 at home and sew on a Cobra Class 4 at work. Both have common servo motors. Both are now into their second motor. I can feather the speed control on both motors to sew around one stitch per second, or one stitch at a time. One of the motors is touchier and drops out with a violent shake if I try to sew under one/second. This is a design quirk in the electronics that controls the unit. There is nothing that can be done, other than try to avoid that awkward spot. The other motor sews more slowly, about one every other second, then simply drops out with a whimper, rather than shaking the entire table and machine. Both of the motors I use on these 441 machines are somewhat temperamental and have a rather limited range between just on and full on. Still, there is enough range of motion if I am careful with my foot and keep steady pressure on the floor pedal. Thankfully, I have a steady foot, but recognize that others may not be so fortunate. They will have a harder time controlling their motors than I do and their concerns need to be addressed. Art once referred me to an SCR servo motor system that has tremendous torque at even the slowest speeds and Trox speaks highly about the Efka motors he uses. Both cost much more than the servo motors that ship on the 441 machines. Some of our dealers, or non-member dealers known to us, already stock higher-end servo motors, which they will happily sell to anybody. But, this topic is about the motors that are included as standard equipment on new machine purchases. I promise you that this is being worked on. <rant> They copy, but do not improve our machinery and electronics! Sometimes, their QC is lacking. Sometimes they use the cheapest marginally acceptable components, such as light sensors. They know who they are. Their alphabet is known in code-page as the Big 5. </rant>

The topic is about a Cobra Class 4, which IS already equipped with a speed reducer pulley. My Cowboy CB4500 uses the same pulley (~3:1) reduction system. By the time the small output pulley feeds the large one on the flywheel, we are looking at anywhere from 8 to 9 times speed reduction and torque multiplication (depending on motor and flywheel pulley diameters). I am hopeful that this discussion will lead to the development, or discovery of a better motor for these machines; one which won't drive the price up too much higher. There are already better motors available, but they cost a lot more than the servos included as standard equipment. I can assure you that our dealers are discussing this matter and looking into possible alternatives. However, these new motors need to be tested under load for prolonged periods of time to ensure they can stand up to the heavy loads imposed by big machines sewing heavy leather, with big needles and thick thread.

RamRod; Then your problem is that either the timing has gone out, or the bobbin and shuttle cannot clear #138 thread, due to too tight vertical adjustment. Do you have manuals for this machine? A mechanic's manual will help you set the clearances and timing.

You're right: it makes no sense, until you get into thicker and harder to knot threads, like #415. Then, one would preferably use #346 on the bottom to aid the forming of lockstitches. Some folks using #346 on top will use #277 in the bobbin. It is marginally weaker, but knots easier than 346. Otherwise, the smaller thread becomes the weakest link in any mission critical sewing. If your Pfaff can properly tension #138, top and bottom, go with that thread. Use a #22 or #23 needle. Use a regular point for your webbing, and leather point for leather collars or leads.

A thread rat's nest under the material is usually caused by a total lack of top tension. However, the bobbin thread is usually picked up in those situations; it's just tighter on the bottom than the top my a magnitude. Failure to pick up the bobbin thread can be caused by the bobbin thread jamming inside the case, or timing that has been thrown out by a jam, or the wrong needle size or orientation, or a bobbin shuttle that is too tight in its housing and won't allow the thicker top thread to pass both over and under it. Finally, the check spring position can have some effect of the forming of a loop under the throat plate. You are going to have to take off the throat plate and watch the needle come down and ascend in a narrow test strip. Hand-spin the wheel slowly and see what is happening to the top thread when the shuttle point passes the cut-out in the needle's eye region. First of all, the eye must be under the point as it passes by. The loop must face up and out to get picked up. Once picked up, the top thread should be carried around the bobbin case, feeding both over and under it smoothly, without any hang-ups. Do what you must to make these things happen. Bobbin shuttles are screwed onto the shafts that turn them. Needle bars are screwed into the arms that move them up and down. Screws can come loose and timing can change. Another thought is if you are using the wrong needle and bobbin for your thread, it might unravel and rat out on you. Are you using left or Z twist thread? One of the bobbins rotates in the best direction for common left twist thread. The other bobbin turns the wrong way and is meant for right twist thread.

Gregg; My 31-15 is very old. I believe it is older than 1920. The machine came with DBx1 needles when I got it. They are perfectly centered in the hole in the throat plate. I have some old stock of system 134 needles that I wanted to use in the machine, but, they hit to the left of center in the hole. Some work okay, others skip stitches. The DBx1 work perfectly. Maybe my needle bar was made for these needles back then.

If you want to show photos of how well the machine was degreased, post here. I would start a new topic to show off your continuing work on it.